Chaos Engine level viewer - Page 3

jotd · 04 January 2009, 17:32

JST won't be of any help: uses disk images as well.

resourcing the tool could be an option. The tools are very small. But with PC versions of both games and the dynamite unpacker we are able to rip everything already (from PC files but they're basically the same).

Qube · 04 January 2009, 18:47

Ok ok, so after much poking.. used HxD hex editor (http://mh-nexus.de/en/), realised the width of the map is 128 bytes (after removing the initial header bytes), you can set this as a real wide display in HxD and see the layout of the level in LEV1A.MAP.

It appears that the gfx map seems to be first, up at the top, then starting at 0x2000 is the collision/objects map. You can clearly see the ladders and platforms..

So so far in the collision/objects map, I've identified byte values..

00 = no collision (background)
01 = ground (floor tyles, walls)
02 = climbable (ladder)
++

Plus many more!

As for the gfx map, seems the byte values correspond to the tile index numbers, tile gfx are stored in BITS1A.PI1. So for example, 0x0D = sky block tile #13 (just like in your remake PNG graphics), 0x02 = roof block tile #02 (again, as in your remake PNG gfx). Plus I've had no luck working out the actual display format of BITS1A.PI1, it's weird, but you can see the tiles inside it, messed up.

I've had no real luck with the demo stuff though.. no info on difference between LEV1A and LEV1B though still, bizarre.

So, yes, indeed level map is 128x64 bytes, 8192 in total. Thus 4096 pixels by 1024 pixels. (32x16 pixels tiles).

Q;

Retro1234 · 04 January 2009, 18:56

Id love to have a look at the gods demo but im still playing about trying to read the Chaos Engine map -so ill look later
Is the MAP file on the Gods demo definitely compressed?
and what file holds the main graphic Tiles?

jotd · 04 January 2009, 19:00

We agree on the format. I had the map thing figured out, but since I already have map ripped I don't need it. The info of the tiles stored in BITS1A.PI1 is interesting though (only if we can figure out the demo tile format)

I looked very deeply in the demo data, PC or Amiga and no luck for the tilemap. Rest of the info is similar to the full version (walls/ladders/...) & items. Puzzling! I think the tile part is unpacked later once the file has been unpacked "generically". But maybe you checked WinUAE memory and had no luck.
I attach the "unpacked" amiga tilemap for demo.

godsdemomap_unpacked.zip

@booboo: the format is:

header
round 0x10: tiledata (demo: the internal format of which we don't know, full: easy 0x2000 tile matrix data)
round 0x2000: wall/ladder data (simple, see qube's post)
round 0x4000: object & monsters coords & types (only the visible ones)
after that I don't know...

Qube · 04 January 2009, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Id love to have a look at the gods demo but im still playing about trying to read the Chaos Engine map -so ill look later
Is the MAP file on the Gods demo definitely compressed?
and what file holds the main graphic Tiles?

I don't really know the score with the LEV1A.CUT file, seems odd. The tile graphics are perhaps inside BITS11.PC1 in the demo files, following the same naming as the full game, but the PC1 file may be compressed. I remember in the old Atari Degas Elite graphics software days, PI1 was uncompressed low-res, PC1 was compressed, so that may be a hint that it's compressed. I have a vague memory that I once viewed the tiles in the demo data back in 1991 lol, can't remember how..

Would be cool to somehow decode the demo data, perhaps a level viewer could then be cooked up.

Interesting stuff nonetheless..

Q.

Retro1234 · 04 January 2009, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qube

Would be cool to somehow decode the demo data, perhaps a level viewer could then be cooked up.

Im just haveing a poke around in CE altering graphics and moveing tiles for curiosity the same could probably be done with Gods demo -the problem im haveing is theres a lot of switches in the game and I expect the Gods demo is the same Id like to have a little look later though

jotd · 04 January 2009, 19:14

@booboo: we got the CE format pretty much figured out (except for monsters). Check my posts & Exl posts for detailed information. Do you use my viewer to check your changes?

Retro1234 · 04 January 2009, 19:19

Ive been using EXL`s and im crap with Java -But im attempting to read the data into my own viewer -im sure i wont be able to read all the data but its a bit of fun.

Qube · 04 January 2009, 19:21

Boo Boo, it's probably very likely that you can tinker with the map data in CE or Gods, probably crash the game also lol, always worth a bash eh.

Thanks for the file Jotd, it seems to be interleaved or something is going on, I can see the collision/object/trigger map again, starts at 0x2000 as in the full version, but seems to have loads of extra spacing in it, very odd.

Again the demo tilemap (CUT) file has that 44 byte header which has to be removed to see things more clearly.

Q;

Qube · 04 January 2009, 19:49

Quick view of lev1a.map in some little viewer for raw files i coded many moons ago, width set to 128, bytes written direct to screen from palette index 00-FF (byte values).. you can see the map data..

Q;

jotd · 04 January 2009, 19:56

Simple but nice stuff!

If you have the png file with all the tiles, I can give you a proggy to create the real map. Did that for Chaos Engine. Not much harder.

I'm currently working at figuring out the inner details Vectordean/RJP format. Things are also becoming clearer. I guess it's the reverse engineering season

Qube · 04 January 2009, 21:10

Hey guys, I found the demo map data in the memory dump (starts at byte 412522 in the memory).

Attached is the map data, both maps are in the one file, the gfx map and the obj/collision map etc.

I attach a pic for your viewing pleasure, the demo map does seem intriguing..

Q;

jotd · 04 January 2009, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qube

Hey guys, I found the demo map data in the memory dump (starts at byte 412522 in the memory).

Attached is the map data, both maps are in the one file, the gfx map and the obj/collision map etc.

I attach a pic for your viewing pleasure, the demo map does seem intriguing..

Q;

great job!! I'm creating the actual map right away (for my remake & HOL too!)

That confirms that even the unpacked file was not unpacked enough

Hey I'm improving at gfxrip: here's the ripped tiles for Gods demo

Click image for larger version

Name: tiles_demo.png
Views: 614
Size: 58.5 KB
ID: 19568

and the full map:

Click image for larger version

Name: gods_demo_map.png
Views: 943
Size: 333.0 KB
ID: 19573

enjoy!

Exl · 04 January 2009, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Ive been using EXL`s and im crap with Java -But im attempting to read the data into my own viewer -im sure i wont be able to read all the data but its a bit of fun.

It's a giant puzzle is what it is! But any help is appreciated, I still have a lot of unidentified bits of data. See http://www.dvdflick.net/storage/chaosspy.zip for an updated version, plus additional notes. I've yet to organize them properly but it's a good deal more info than I had a few days ago.

Qube · 05 January 2009, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

great job!! I'm creating the actual map right away (for my remake & HOL too!)

That confirms that even the unpacked file was not unpacked enough

Hey I'm improving at gfxrip: here's the ripped tiles for Gods demo

Attachment 19568

and the full map:Attachment 19573

enjoy!

Good stuff! It looks like we've pretty much figured out the Gods map data here, would be neat to play the demo level in your remake. I've been looking at the obj/collision/2nd map, all sorts of triggers and stuff in there it seems, but also some things missing (teleport crystals), so it's still kinda puzzling. It's probably possible to write a remake to use the original (unpacked) level map data once the obj stuff is worked out, but since your remake is available there is no real need to delve too deep, other than for 100% accuracy and checking. I'm sure the Chaos Engine maps are even more complex, but everyone likes a challenge right!

Good work all round everybody!

Q;

jotd · 05 January 2009, 08:17

qube: 100% agree with you. If you don't see some teleport crystals maybe that's because they are not visible at start. Maybe they make it appear using code and pass the coords at this moment. Would be the worst case for us.

Of course Gods Demo level will be featured in the next version of my remake! You'll be credited somewhere BTW.

05 January 2009, 10:07

hi everyone! First. I found your information great about Chaos Engine game. Thank you so much! And I write simple map-viewer for that game, it works fine with all levels except one - "o1chaos.cas" world number in that file is 5 (0x44 position) but why? I use for that file tileset "level4tiles.png" but some tiles are not correct. Do you know about it?
And second. I downloaded PC-version of this game. And I did not find files what you are have in folder "gamedata". My version have some files and I found "chaos.dat" is pseudo archive. I extract files from that archive and look on them, they are different from yours... What do you think about it?
P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

Retro1234 · 05 January 2009, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exl

It's a giant puzzle is what it is! But any help is appreciated, I still have a lot of unidentified bits of data. See http://www.dvdflick.net/storage/chaosspy.zip for an updated version, plus additional notes. I've yet to organize them properly but it's a good deal more info than I had a few days ago.

Thanks EXL ill check out your viewer Im sure you know a hell of a lot more than me so any help is appreciated

Exl · 05 January 2009, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dima

hi everyone! First. I found your information great about Chaos Engine game. Thank you so much! And I write simple map-viewer for that game, it works fine with all levels except one - "o1chaos.cas" world number in that file is 5 (0x44 position) but why? I use for that file tileset "level4tiles.png" but some tiles are not correct. Do you know about it?
And second. I downloaded PC-version of this game. And I did not find files what you are have in folder "gamedata". My version have some files and I found "chaos.dat" is pseudo archive. I extract files from that archive and look on them, they are different from yours... What do you think about it?
P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

0x44 stores something related to tile selection, but not world number as far as I can see. I don't use it in chaosspy at all. JOTD's archive has a level_4a and 4b tileset also, maybe one of those will work with map O. The files in gamedata were taken (and some decompressed) from the CD32 version of Chaos Engine.

jotd · 05 January 2009, 17:47

last 2 levels of world 4 use basic tiles + extra tiles (4+5 or 4+6). In the CE level viewer, I have created 2 tilesets (4a & 4b). 4a = 4+5 and works with 3 first levels, 4b = 4+6 and works with last level.

04 January 2009, 17:32	#41
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,207	JST won't be of any help: uses disk images as well. resourcing the tool could be an option. The tools are very small. But with PC versions of both games and the dynamite unpacker we are able to rip everything already (from PC files but they're basically the same). Last edited by jotd; 04 January 2009 at 17:39.

04 January 2009, 18:47	#42
Qube Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: England Posts: 218	Ok ok, so after much poking.. used HxD hex editor (http://mh-nexus.de/en/), realised the width of the map is 128 bytes (after removing the initial header bytes), you can set this as a real wide display in HxD and see the layout of the level in LEV1A.MAP. It appears that the gfx map seems to be first, up at the top, then starting at 0x2000 is the collision/objects map. You can clearly see the ladders and platforms.. So so far in the collision/objects map, I've identified byte values.. 00 = no collision (background) 01 = ground (floor tyles, walls) 02 = climbable (ladder) ++ Plus many more! As for the gfx map, seems the byte values correspond to the tile index numbers, tile gfx are stored in BITS1A.PI1. So for example, 0x0D = sky block tile #13 (just like in your remake PNG graphics), 0x02 = roof block tile #02 (again, as in your remake PNG gfx). Plus I've had no luck working out the actual display format of BITS1A.PI1, it's weird, but you can see the tiles inside it, messed up. I've had no real luck with the demo stuff though.. no info on difference between LEV1A and LEV1B though still, bizarre. So, yes, indeed level map is 128x64 bytes, 8192 in total. Thus 4096 pixels by 1024 pixels. (32x16 pixels tiles). Q; Last edited by Qube; 04 January 2009 at 18:52. Reason: amendment

04 January 2009, 19:00	#44
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,207	We agree on the format. I had the map thing figured out, but since I already have map ripped I don't need it. The info of the tiles stored in BITS1A.PI1 is interesting though (only if we can figure out the demo tile format) I looked very deeply in the demo data, PC or Amiga and no luck for the tilemap. Rest of the info is similar to the full version (walls/ladders/...) & items. Puzzling! I think the tile part is unpacked later once the file has been unpacked "generically". But maybe you checked WinUAE memory and had no luck. I attach the "unpacked" amiga tilemap for demo. godsdemomap_unpacked.zip @booboo: the format is: header round 0x10: tiledata (demo: the internal format of which we don't know, full: easy 0x2000 tile matrix data) round 0x2000: wall/ladder data (simple, see qube's post) round 0x4000: object & monsters coords & types (only the visible ones) after that I don't know... Last edited by jotd; 04 January 2009 at 19:09.

04 January 2009, 19:49	#50
Qube Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: England Posts: 218	Quick view of lev1a.map in some little viewer for raw files i coded many moons ago, width set to 128, bytes written direct to screen from palette index 00-FF (byte values).. you can see the map data.. Q; Attached Thumbnails

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04 January 2009, 18:56	#43
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,781	Id love to have a look at the gods demo but im still playing about trying to read the Chaos Engine map -so ill look later Is the MAP file on the Gods demo definitely compressed? and what file holds the main graphic Tiles?

04 January 2009, 19:14	#47
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,207	@booboo: we got the CE format pretty much figured out (except for monsters). Check my posts & Exl posts for detailed information. Do you use my viewer to check your changes?

04 January 2009, 19:19	#48
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,781	Ive been using EXL`s and im crap with Java -But im attempting to read the data into my own viewer -im sure i wont be able to read all the data but its a bit of fun.

04 January 2009, 19:21	#49
Qube Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: England Posts: 218	Boo Boo, it's probably very likely that you can tinker with the map data in CE or Gods, probably crash the game also lol, always worth a bash eh. Thanks for the file Jotd, it seems to be interleaved or something is going on, I can see the collision/object/trigger map again, starts at 0x2000 as in the full version, but seems to have loads of extra spacing in it, very odd. Again the demo tilemap (CUT) file has that 44 byte header which has to be removed to see things more clearly. Q;

04 January 2009, 19:56	#51
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,207	Simple but nice stuff! If you have the png file with all the tiles, I can give you a proggy to create the real map. Did that for Chaos Engine. Not much harder. I'm currently working at figuring out the inner details Vectordean/RJP format. Things are also becoming clearer. I guess it's the reverse engineering season

05 January 2009, 08:17	#56
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,207	qube: 100% agree with you. If you don't see some teleport crystals maybe that's because they are not visible at start. Maybe they make it appear using code and pass the coords at this moment. Would be the worst case for us. Of course Gods Demo level will be featured in the next version of my remake! You'll be credited somewhere BTW.

05 January 2009, 10:07	#57
dima Posts: n/a	hi everyone! First. I found your information great about Chaos Engine game. Thank you so much! And I write simple map-viewer for that game, it works fine with all levels except one - "o1chaos.cas" world number in that file is 5 (0x44 position) but why? I use for that file tileset "level4tiles.png" but some tiles are not correct. Do you know about it? And second. I downloaded PC-version of this game. And I did not find files what you are have in folder "gamedata". My version have some files and I found "chaos.dat" is pseudo archive. I extract files from that archive and look on them, they are different from yours... What do you think about it? P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

05 January 2009, 17:47	#60
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,207	last 2 levels of world 4 use basic tiles + extra tiles (4+5 or 4+6). In the CE level viewer, I have created 2 tilesets (4a & 4b). 4a = 4+5 and works with 3 first levels, 4b = 4+6 and works with last level.

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