Experiences with GameBase (Amiga), other frontends and MAGE feature requests

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by GameBase

Hi, I'm the author of GameBase, and just want to say it's nice to see another project going strong! I'm looking forward to seeing MAGE - It sounds like it is addressing all the shortfalls of my now ageing frontend. Speaking of which, the reason for the 2 columns is because when I first coded it I was working with C64 database (GB64) with about 10000 games, and reading more than 2 columns into a listbox on my PC in Visual Basic was waaaay too slow at the time, so I decided to code and optimise for 2 columns. Well, hindsight is a wonderful thing...

I would have thought since releasing GB as open source, someone might have added some multi-column functionality, and fixed some of the other problems, but maybe my code is too bad for most people to bother The reason for the halt in GB's development (and the reason for going open source) was due to lack of time, part lack of interest, getting married and moving house (twice). With what little time I have now I'm developing another frontend called 'cabOS' (cabinet Operating System). It's like a GameBase for arcade cabinets. It will use a custom text file database, and will not suffer the same defects of the GameBase frontend.

I haven't downloaded your Amiga database yet, but I'll try to take a look very soon. Keep up the good work.

This is becoming an interesting little group here. As for the quality of your code, I couldn't judge, but the decision was mostly against VisualBasic in general. As for hindsight, I would very much appreciate if you could talk a bit more about what you would do differently if you had to do it all over again today.

Hi GameBase

Great to see you here!

My comments about Gamebase was not a refelection on you or the frontend, it was merely my thoughts on how it could be better. It remains an excellent frontend and it's still the best avialable but the lack of updates have left many people worrying about the future of the databases using it. I think people need these things to be actively maintained for their own peace of mind. When so much work goes into creating something like GamebaseST its easy to understand why. I personally gave a big sigh of relief when I first heard of the MAGE, the possibility of a new frontend that is able to import Gamebase data so the creations made possible by your creation have a future.

[GameBase]

Originally Posted by eLowar

This is becoming an interesting little group here. As for the quality of your code, I couldn't judge, but the decision was mostly against VisualBasic in general. As for hindsight, I would very much appreciate if you could talk a bit more about what you would do differently if you had to do it all over again today.

It's quite late and I'm off to bed in a minute, but here's a few things off the top of my head that I'd do different if I was writing GameBase again now...

- adding/editing/deleting games would be via a seperate exe, so that I could streamline the frontend and make it more user-friendly and responsive/lightweight

- keep game data and personal/stat data seperate, so that people can update their database and not lose their personal stats (highscores, personal ratings etc)

- allow more custom fields in the database... and make it possible to assign e.g. multiple publishers to a single game

- put far more emphasis on making it as easy as possible for users to add games in bulk, be it through dat files (TOSEC or whatever) or just bulk adding games from a folder.

- user interface overhaul, multi/custom columns, no size restrictions on screenshots, option to pick external app for each 'extras' file-type, basic skinning etc.

- GEMUS: I'd have a little interface that writes simple scripts for you, so you don't have to remember all the syntax. I think many people were put off GB because of the scripting. I'd probably stick this in a wizard whenever you add an emulator.

- VB would be cast aside to make way for C++, and I'd probably get rid of MS Access too and instead write a simple custom text file database thats easy to edit by hand.

James

[GameBase]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Hello, James. Nice to see on the EAB. I'm using your frontend for years. There is not really an alternative at the moment for me using the computer & console emulators. But i'm looking forward to see Mage as well. Are you working on another multi-frontend, or is "cabOS" your single aim at the moment?

Well, cabOS will be a multi-emulator frontend, but will run full-screen for arcade cabinets. I've planned to make it GEMUS compatible so I can port the GB64 collection etc to my cab, and it should of course run MAME "out of the box". I've checked out all the current arcade cabinet frontends and will be trying to incorporate most of the feature set covered by them.

Originally Posted by Goldrunner

My comments about Gamebase was not a refelection on you or the frontend, it was merely my thoughts on how it could be better. It remains an excellent frontend and it's still the best avialable but the lack of updates have left many people worrying about the future of the databases using it. I think people need these things to be actively maintained for their own peace of mind. When so much work goes into creating something like GamebaseST its easy to understand why. I personally gave a big sigh of relief when I first heard of the MAGE, the possibility of a new frontend that is able to import Gamebase data so the creations made possible by your creation have a future.

No worries! It's a shame nobody else has the time really to update GB since it went Open Source. I agree it's way dated now, and requires a lot of attention, but really my GB days are over - I have a new hobby now - my arcade cabinet . I'm also looking forward to seeing MAGE, and I hope it will be everything GameBase should have been if work had continued on it. I'll gladly beta test it for you guys btw.

I've been using GameBase for couple of years too, but only for C-64 stuff... Currently i'm using also Lemonade for Amiga stuff and i've been using it since it got released. This MAGE project however sounds interesting, especially if it includes SPS games too I was just wondering if it's possible to add CD32 and/or CDTV games to the database? Or is it impossible?

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Jakuchu

I've been using GameBase for couple of years too, but only for C-64 stuff... Currently i'm using also Lemonade for Amiga stuff and i've been using it since it got released. This MAGE project however sounds interesting, especially if it includes SPS games too I was just wondering if it's possible to add CD32 and/or CDTV games to the database? Or is it impossible?

Sorry for the late answer. What's worse, I don't have much of one. Technically it's possible to make a CD games database, of course. From what I understand it is rather unlikely that (official) CD game support will be added to GameBase Amiga (the database) in the near future or ever. There might be a seperate database in the future. I'm afraid this is as much as I can say at this point.

I generally use no frontends. Only for MAME.
I use Build in Emus loading roms system.

But gamebase, its different : I dont use it as a front end, but as a great documentation tool. C64 gamebase is soo great and interesting, I could browse it for hours.

It really make me want to do my own database of major game systems. But when you have 2.000+ games to document, it's a massive task.

So here are my comment about feature I would like to see in a game database tool. and MAGE soon.

We must think about ways to make fast and easily long list of games.

1. Gamebase is tosec compatible, but it could be Goodtools compatible too.

2. When a user have a directory full of games files, like roms, it would be best if he could just point to that directory to make his long starting gamelist. without individual game input, it just leave some editing to do.

3. Automated game snapshot recovery : most of the time, the game name and picture names are the sames. It should be easy to point to a directory full of game pictures and let the program do the connection. This shouldwork at 90% of the cases.

4. Gamebase is very limited with multiple picture. It only work with names like this : gamename.png -> gamename_1.png -> gamename_2.png etc. It would be nice if it worked with first picture names like gamename_001 or gamename001 etc. (without forgetting about automated game snapshot recovery).

5. One game name for multiple roms, game files : sometime you have different dump for exacly the same game (this happen a lot with goodtools). we should be able to put those different versions under the same name. Like this, the game database would be clearer and easyer to use (again, this is mostly a problem with goodtools roms).

6. Game genre are very important. Its with them and some filters that you can find that game that you have forgotten the name. The user should be able to create their own category : there is no 'mahjong' game on the C64 or amiga I think, but on japanese system they are many. Also, it would be nice if game category where on a board that you just had to check the different genre to create complexe category : Batman the movie -Platform, racing, puzzle, multi genre, movie-; Hunter's Moon -Shoot multydirectionnal puzzle-; Last ninja -Fight, isometric, arcade adventure-. etc

7. Edit more than one game at a time : select games names like you select files in windows explorer and edit the information of all the selected game at the same time.

thanks for reading.
I hope it could help.
can't wait for MAGE

[eLowar]

There are a lot of good ideas in there, some of which we've already taken into account, some of which are new (or sort of new). We will definitely take them into account. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Aral]

I dont know if this has been mentioned before but if MAGE could have dat functionality it would be great. TIM is good, CLRMame is good, Good tools is good but they all have their limitations. To have the ability to use one program to scan, rebuild, view, play tunes, open piccys and then play the game for all currently available romsets would be awesome. IMO there really is no need to build in dedicated media players and text / nfo / pdf viewers as most people already have them installed on their PC's. To have the program use the PC's defaults would be the go.

[Mangar]

From 1998 through 2003 I was working on various Amiga Frontend projects.

First was a frontend dedicated to the Amiga only. It was called C.A.F.E. (Commodore Amiga Front End). I was working with a really nice guy who went by the name of Hitoro. Unfortunately, real life got in the way and that project was cancelled. Then, James Burrows started writing Gamebase. It was a universal frontend similar to his previous Gamebase64. I toiled on the database for that, writing the gemus scripts, and requesting certain amiga specific features from James. After 18 months I was maybe 40% complete. Then I found out why people backup data. Lost everything and lost a lot of the desire to continue with the project. Yet, I really wanted to see an Amiga Frontend like Gamebase64. Finally, a guy from here named Runey started on GamebaseAmy. Things were progessing really quickly. He made some necessary changes to Gamebase and Toni Wilen helped by changing/adding some key features to Winuae. Then his house was broken into and they stole all his equipment and smashed everything else. At this point I decided the whole damn project was cursed and I gave up.

Still, I wanted to see a gamebase frontend. I was hoping RCK and the HOL crew would release an offline version of HOL. Needless to say I fairly relieved to see Belgarath was working on his own database for Gamebase. I've known of Belgarath since C.A.F.E. was started and I'm sure he was sick of all these failed attempts and decided to get it done himself. Now with 2000 games there is finally something with some meat to it.

I can see why people are interested in creating Multi-platfrom frontends. However, my opinion is a selfish one and I'd love to see an AMIGA-ONLY frontend that was tailored to be used with .MOD files and Winuae. It would be an offline version of HOL. HOL is an amazing accomplishment and I regret trying to create my own thing instead of helping them out. But when you are already working on something for a year it's hard to drop it.

I'm excited still to see MAGE. I hope you take the best things from gamebase and improve everything else. Really, if I were to start all over again I'd develop something along the lines of HOL.

Sorry for rambling but I'm pretty excited to check out Belgarath's database.

[Belgarath]

Hey mangar, good to see you again!

Don't worry about MAGE being a multi-frontend, it's going to be very very customisable and support for amiga music is most assuredly being planned.

If you want to drop into the #mage irc chan on here, then you are more than welcome and we can have a chat about what features you'd love to see.

[wakeupbomb]

MAGE sounds fantastic. Really excited about it.
Support for Amiga Music will be awesome.
Yep
Can't wait

[ilm]

it sounds fantastic yes, let us hope it will be fantastic :-)

a lot of design has going to make mage quite open-minded, so the frontend is going to work on almost everything, from amiga to sness to your homebrewn games or ... :-)

[eLowar]

In the face of my recent business I think it's about time I speed things up a bit. I hereby promise, the whole of EAB being my witness, that MagmaDb (the part that interfaces with the database and the database layout itself) will be done by the end of next month. Somebody please figure out a punishment in case I fail to live up to that promise to motivate me (although the publicity of this statement might already do quite a bit ).

Deadlines hooray.

[Marcuz]

YAY!

[Belgarath]

I hope a lot of people have read this, knowing elowar he'll delete the post and pretend he never wrote it in the first place!

[eLowar]

Pffft. I do no such things.

[Belgarath]

just wait until more time elapses and the pressure mounts..

[eLowar]

That's when I work best.

[wakeupbomb]

Originally Posted by eLowar

In the face of my recent business I think it's about time I speed things up a bit. I hereby promise, the whole of EAB being my witness, that MagmaDb (the part that interfaces with the database and the database layout itself) will be done by the end of next month. Somebody please figure out a punishment in case I fail to live up to that promise to motivate me (although the publicity of this statement might already do quite a bit ).

Deadlines hooray.

Fantastic!
Something to look forward too at last