PC to 1084 : RGB or S-Video?

Andymiga · 22 March 2009, 11:05

Hi,

I have a Commodore 1084 (no SCART socket, just the round 6-pin DINs and also Luma/Chroma) here, and at the moment it is connected to an A1200, Atari ST and a C64, thus:

* A1200 via RGB
* Atari ST via RGB
* C64 via S-Video (chroma/luma)

Now, I also want to connect a PC to this monitor (for MAME purposes), and I do not want to resort to an ArcadeVGA card solution.

I guess the easiest way would be to just use chroma/luma (S-Video from the TV-out of the PC video card), but I was thinking that maybe VGA (RGB) would also be possible? Anyone have any experience on this?

prowler · 22 March 2009, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andymiga

I guess the easiest way would be to just use chroma/luma (S-Video from the TV-out of the PC video card), but I was thinking that maybe VGA (RGB) would also be possible? Anyone have any experience on this?

Yes, you are right about the easiest way to do this. To connect VGA to the RGB input of your 1084 monitor would require an adapter which incorporates circuitry to convert the VGA signal for compliance with the monitor's RGB input.

See this page on the cable forum for more details:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/19...tv-output.html
or just Google for "VGA to SCART"

prowler

Andymiga · 22 March 2009, 12:29

Thanks prowler for the link.

I also found this:
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2tv/cindex.html

According to the info above, I'm not at all sure I want to go through all the hassle for a bit of image quality, especially because I would need a special driver to make it work.

S-Video (luma+chroma) is an easy plug-n-play solution, all I need is to solder a simple cable for the job

prowler · 22 March 2009, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andymiga

I also found this:
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2tv/cindex.html

Yes, that's a useful link too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andymiga

S-Video (luma+chroma) is an easy plug-n-play solution, all I need is to solder a simple cable for the job

That sounds like the way to go, mate!

Andymiga · 22 March 2009, 20:58

Yes, except that I just realized I don't have TV-out (S-Video) on my HTPC motherboard (780G chipset with HD3200 graphics, only VGA and HDMI outputs)

I also have a "Game Box" video converter box I bought a few months back, maybe it will be able to convert the VGA signal to S-Video... Have to check tomorrow

Chain · 22 March 2009, 21:45

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=370177346717

Andymiga · 23 March 2009, 19:27

Well, I couldn't get the "Game Box" video converter thingy to output S-Video. It has an S-Video connector but I think it is only for input (there was no manual with that silly box!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chain

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=370177346717

Thanks Chain, yes I was thinking about a similar product.

I think I'll go for a converter/adapter like that one - I don't want to buy a video card just to get S-Video (TVout)!

c0dehunter · 08 May 2012, 05:51

Hello all,
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to see if I can ask a similar question:
I am trying to connect my PC (Windows XP) to 1084S-D1 for MAME and other emulator purposes.

Surely, 1084S-D1's RGB port, somehow must be able to receive a comparable signal from ThinkPad (or a modern computer for that matter), and convert this into something comparable to a real Amiga video signal. My issue with S-Video (from ThinkPad) to Y/C on 1084S-D1 is that it is NOT as sharp as when you connect a real Amiga to 1084S-D1 using a a DB 15-pin to DB 9-pin cable.

http://www.ambery.com/db9todbadca.html

c0dehunter · 08 May 2012, 06:35

Looks like it is possible and have been already done here!

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...hp?topic=127.0

"No need extra converter, VGA to SCART in RGB will work fine BUT you'll have to use AdvanceMame under DOS, or, more easy for setup : buy an Ultimarc's ArcadeVGA and you'll be able to use windows. I strongly suggest you that option if you never worked under dos and AdvanceMame config"

Jope · 08 May 2012, 09:03

IIRC you were not actually using s-video to connect, you only had one RCA cable from the thinkpad to the monitor?

The amiga.org thread you started about this had too many cooks in it, so I decided to not bother answering any more.

Anyway, soft15k either with the dongle or without and a suitable cable should help. Laptop video cards are often difficult to get working with 15kHz, better success is had with desktop PCs and one of the known working video cards.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/...9_-_Soft-15khz

The dongle:
http://www.arcadeshop.de/product_inf...54&language=en

c0dehunter · 08 May 2012, 09:20

Thank you.

Jope · 08 May 2012, 12:42

Please let us know how it went, if you decide to try the soft15kHz solution.

And be quick with the 1084's power switch in case you accidentally feed it 31kHz.. I'm sure it won't like prolonged exposure to high frequencies. :-)

c0dehunter · 08 May 2012, 17:23

Thank you, I will!

desiv · 08 May 2012, 17:26

Hey, that's what I said in the other thread! :-) :-)

Good luck..

desiv

c0dehunter · 08 May 2012, 17:49

You are the best! One question: The current S-Video connection to my 1084S-D1 is a natural 15Khz, right? Since I have been using S-Video connection on my 1084S-D1 this way and playing with it since last week, I hope it is OK. (I know with my desktop computer and installed soft 15Khz, I have to be careful though)

desiv · 08 May 2012, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0dehunter

The current S-Video connection to my 1084S-D1 is a natural 15Khz, right? Since I have been using S-Video connection on my 1084S-D1 this way and playing with it since last week, I hope it is OK. (I know with my desktop computer and installed soft 15Khz, I have to be careful though)

Yeah, s-video is 15khz. You're good...

desiv

Stedy · 08 May 2012, 21:50

@c0dehunter

As other have stated, the S-Video output from the GPU is best but spend a little bit more on a good quality cable. The mini-din connectors can degrade the signal if not adequately shielded internally. They are difficult to wire up but do make a difference in the signal quality.

Modenr GPUs (since 2006) do not support RGB @ 15 KHz from the TV DAC, if the manufacturer does support HDTV, you may have YPrPb at SDTV frequencies. Older ATI/AMD cards (9000 series) do support 15 KHz RGB.
GPUs are good at scan-converting and interlacing, I've watched fast DVD video on a Y/C output with no perceivable issues.

Hope the 1084 works Ok.

Ian

c0dehunter · 09 May 2012, 04:53

Thanks for your response. I am having someone hack a VGA to RGB (15 to 9) cable for me, and I have asked his to use this schematic:

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...hp?topic=127.0

(The first message in that thread, by user named "DarthNuno")

The thing is, I am not entirely sure if that is accurate or not.

For example this page, has a different pin schematic:
http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/co_C1084dd.html

And user named "funkycochise", in this forum, has used a yet another one:
http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...p?topic=127.15

On male connector witch to be plugged on the female of the monitor :

1. Gnd
2. -
3. Red
4. Green
5. Blue
6. -
7. Sync
8. -
9. -

Would you kindly verify WHICH ONE is the correct pin layout/shcematic please? I don't want to have this guy make this cable (he is charging a bit high) to realize that is not the correct one! Any help would be greatly appreciated!

c0dehunter · 09 May 2012, 06:44

OK, my first attempt is not successful I guess. This is what I did:

1) I went out I bought a D9M-15HF "Gender Changer" adapter, and a male Db9 Serial cable. (already had a male-male VGA).

2) Installed 15Khz soft utility on my PC desktop (nVIDIA 6200 AGP, which has 1VGA, 1DVI and 1S-Video out)

3) lowered my resolution to 640x480.

4) Restarted Windows XP

5) Connected my 1084S-D1, via the cable contraption that I mentioned in step 1.

6) 1084S-D1 only displays garbled red video signal. I even changed my VGA cable for a different one, pressed on buttons in the back of 1084S-D1, nothing changed however.

All screenshots are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/4890168...ream/lightbox/

I am asking someone to make a cable for me, according to the following instructions:

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...hp?topic=127.0

So hopefully I have better success with this one.

I will keep you posted.

Jope · 09 May 2012, 12:11

You made up that and connected it between the monitor and the VGA connector?! Did you measure that the right signal went to the right pin?

As far as I remember, the 1084-D1 has the 9-pin D-sub connector behind it, thus the pinout is:

http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/co_C1084dd.html

Please don't assume that if a connector fits directly or using a gender changer, it will just work. Serial cables are sometimes wired straight, sometimes crossover. The VGA 9 pin D-sub pinout is completely different to the 1084 9 pin D-sub pinout.

At least the voltages coming out from the VGA port should be the around same as what the monitor expects, so you probably didn't blow anything up with your experiment. Let's hope you got lucky.

However in the future, please look at the pinouts and buy/make a suitable cable and don't just blindly connect stuff up.

22 March 2009, 11:05	#1
Andymiga Got the C= spark again :) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 69	PC to 1084 : RGB or S-Video? Hi, I have a Commodore 1084 (no SCART socket, just the round 6-pin DINs and also Luma/Chroma) here, and at the moment it is connected to an A1200, Atari ST and a C64, thus: * A1200 via RGB * Atari ST via RGB * C64 via S-Video (chroma/luma) Now, I also want to connect a PC to this monitor (for MAME purposes), and I do not want to resort to an ArcadeVGA card solution. I guess the easiest way would be to just use chroma/luma (S-Video from the TV-out of the PC video card), but I was thinking that maybe VGA (RGB) would also be possible? Anyone have any experience on this?

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22 March 2009, 12:29	#3
Andymiga Got the C= spark again :) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 69	Thanks prowler for the link. I also found this: http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2tv/cindex.html According to the info above, I'm not at all sure I want to go through all the hassle for a bit of image quality, especially because I would need a special driver to make it work. S-Video (luma+chroma) is an easy plug-n-play solution, all I need is to solder a simple cable for the job

22 March 2009, 20:58	#5
Andymiga Got the C= spark again :) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 69	Yes, except that I just realized I don't have TV-out (S-Video) on my HTPC motherboard (780G chipset with HD3200 graphics, only VGA and HDMI outputs) I also have a "Game Box" video converter box I bought a few months back, maybe it will be able to convert the VGA signal to S-Video... Have to check tomorrow

22 March 2009, 21:45	#6
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=370177346717

08 May 2012, 05:51	#8
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	Hello all, I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to see if I can ask a similar question: I am trying to connect my PC (Windows XP) to 1084S-D1 for MAME and other emulator purposes. Surely, 1084S-D1's RGB port, somehow must be able to receive a comparable signal from ThinkPad (or a modern computer for that matter), and convert this into something comparable to a real Amiga video signal. My issue with S-Video (from ThinkPad) to Y/C on 1084S-D1 is that it is NOT as sharp as when you connect a real Amiga to 1084S-D1 using a a DB 15-pin to DB 9-pin cable. http://www.ambery.com/db9todbadca.html

08 May 2012, 06:35	#9
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	Looks like it is possible and have been already done here! http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...hp?topic=127.0 "No need extra converter, VGA to SCART in RGB will work fine BUT you'll have to use AdvanceMame under DOS, or, more easy for setup : buy an Ultimarc's ArcadeVGA and you'll be able to use windows. I strongly suggest you that option if you never worked under dos and AdvanceMame config"

08 May 2012, 09:03	#10
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	IIRC you were not actually using s-video to connect, you only had one RCA cable from the thinkpad to the monitor? The amiga.org thread you started about this had too many cooks in it, so I decided to not bother answering any more. Anyway, soft15k either with the dongle or without and a suitable cable should help. Laptop video cards are often difficult to get working with 15kHz, better success is had with desktop PCs and one of the known working video cards. http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/...9_-_Soft-15khz The dongle: http://www.arcadeshop.de/product_inf...54&language=en

08 May 2012, 09:20	#11
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	Thank you.

08 May 2012, 12:42	#12
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Please let us know how it went, if you decide to try the soft15kHz solution. And be quick with the 1084's power switch in case you accidentally feed it 31kHz.. I'm sure it won't like prolonged exposure to high frequencies. :-)

08 May 2012, 17:23	#13
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	Thank you, I will!

08 May 2012, 17:26	#14
desiv Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 1,767	Hey, that's what I said in the other thread! :-) :-) Good luck.. desiv

08 May 2012, 17:49	#15
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	You are the best! One question: The current S-Video connection to my 1084S-D1 is a natural 15Khz, right? Since I have been using S-Video connection on my 1084S-D1 this way and playing with it since last week, I hope it is OK. (I know with my desktop computer and installed soft 15Khz, I have to be careful though)

08 May 2012, 21:50	#17
Stedy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: United Kingdom Age: 46 Posts: 733	@c0dehunter As other have stated, the S-Video output from the GPU is best but spend a little bit more on a good quality cable. The mini-din connectors can degrade the signal if not adequately shielded internally. They are difficult to wire up but do make a difference in the signal quality. Modenr GPUs (since 2006) do not support RGB @ 15 KHz from the TV DAC, if the manufacturer does support HDTV, you may have YPrPb at SDTV frequencies. Older ATI/AMD cards (9000 series) do support 15 KHz RGB. GPUs are good at scan-converting and interlacing, I've watched fast DVD video on a Y/C output with no perceivable issues. Hope the 1084 works Ok. Ian

09 May 2012, 04:53	#18
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	Thanks for your response. I am having someone hack a VGA to RGB (15 to 9) cable for me, and I have asked his to use this schematic: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...hp?topic=127.0 (The first message in that thread, by user named "DarthNuno") The thing is, I am not entirely sure if that is accurate or not. For example this page, has a different pin schematic: http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/co_C1084dd.html And user named "funkycochise", in this forum, has used a yet another one: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...p?topic=127.15 On male connector witch to be plugged on the female of the monitor : 1. Gnd 2. - 3. Red 4. Green 5. Blue 6. - 7. Sync 8. - 9. - Would you kindly verify WHICH ONE is the correct pin layout/shcematic please? I don't want to have this guy make this cable (he is charging a bit high) to realize that is not the correct one! Any help would be greatly appreciated!

09 May 2012, 06:44	#19
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	OK, my first attempt is not successful I guess. This is what I did: 1) I went out I bought a D9M-15HF "Gender Changer" adapter, and a male Db9 Serial cable. (already had a male-male VGA). 2) Installed 15Khz soft utility on my PC desktop (nVIDIA 6200 AGP, which has 1VGA, 1DVI and 1S-Video out) 3) lowered my resolution to 640x480. 4) Restarted Windows XP 5) Connected my 1084S-D1, via the cable contraption that I mentioned in step 1. 6) 1084S-D1 only displays garbled red video signal. I even changed my VGA cable for a different one, pressed on buttons in the back of 1084S-D1, nothing changed however. All screenshots are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/4890168...ream/lightbox/ I am asking someone to make a cable for me, according to the following instructions: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor...hp?topic=127.0 So hopefully I have better success with this one. I will keep you posted.

09 May 2012, 12:11	#20
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	You made up that and connected it between the monitor and the VGA connector?! Did you measure that the right signal went to the right pin? As far as I remember, the 1084-D1 has the 9-pin D-sub connector behind it, thus the pinout is: http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/co_C1084dd.html Please don't assume that if a connector fits directly or using a gender changer, it will just work. Serial cables are sometimes wired straight, sometimes crossover. The VGA 9 pin D-sub pinout is completely different to the 1084 9 pin D-sub pinout. At least the voltages coming out from the VGA port should be the around same as what the monitor expects, so you probably didn't blow anything up with your experiment. Let's hope you got lucky. However in the future, please look at the pinouts and buy/make a suitable cable and don't just blindly connect stuff up.

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