Removing the IDE Wait on Kickstart 3.1

Zetr0 · 14 June 2010, 03:41

Hello there my fellow forum chummies,

I am here tapping again with yet a touch of insomnia with hope that you can help me solve this problem once and for all..

As some of you may know I have an A4000, I am quite lucky to say that she is equipped with a Cyberstorm Mk2 060 + the CyberSCSI 2 as well.

All is good and she has plent of ramto play with at the moment.

I have a OS3.9 Classic Workbench with both Boing Bags 1 and 2 installed and she is running a dream via 640x512 (interlaced).

Now she is running from SCSI an 18.1GB 68pin SCSI HDD, and is very quick in its action and activity.... however... the initial booting is killing me..

The wait Kickstart 3.1 implements for IDE devices to respond is an absolute abhorrent waste of time. nearly 30 seconds (feels longer) before the CyberSCSI is enquired and starts the SCSI boot sequence.

I have tried (and built my own) IDE Terminator and it works well however I dont want to loose the IDE, I just DONT want to boot from it, is there a way or a modification I can do to the KickROM that will reduce this epic wast of a wait to somthing like 4 or 5 seconds?

Also the pointless - epileptic fit inducing IDE LED activity strobing /flashing is too much, there must be a better way than pluming IDE pins 3 and 5 via 47k resistors to pin 39???

I humbly appreciate any ideas, and I look forward to sharing my A4000 build log with you all =)

gulliver · 14 June 2010, 04:01

Check out for the solution over here:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...ight=ide+delay

Good luck!

rkauer · 14 June 2010, 04:30

What about a CD-ROM or even a DVD unit on the IDE chain, my friend?

gulliver · 14 June 2010, 06:18

I am thinking, I dont know if possible, but maybe there is another possibility:

You could burn a kickstart rom without ide support removing scsi.device from the kickstart build, and then after your computer completely boots from scsi and have workbench completely loaded, use loadmodule and load the A4000 scsi.device to have ide support enabled.

So from now onwards your Amiga should quickly boot from the CyberSCSI.device, with no delay, and when you think suitable/necessary use loadmodule to load the ide support.

I hope it works

Cosmos · 14 June 2010, 09:20

Add a battery & memory to store the boot priority (in the early-startup)

A good hack for you, Zetro !

Jope · 14 June 2010, 09:28

Remove scsi.device from your kickstart ROM, then use it disk based if you really want to use the IDE bus for something. (why? just get scside adapters and plumb everything to the scsi bus)

Or get a CSmk3 that has an idekiller built into the firmware.

cosmicfrog · 14 June 2010, 12:40

just decrease the boot priority on the ide drive to lower than the scsi one simples

well simple if it works, would love to test

thomas · 14 June 2010, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicfrog

just decrease the boot priority on the ide drive to lower than the scsi one simples

If there is no IDE drive, there is nothing for which you can decrease the priority.

I would just plug one of those to the IDE controller: IDE Flash Module 40Pin 512MB

cosmicfrog · 14 June 2010, 13:46

but I read it that he wants to keep the ide available

obviously if there is no HDD attached to the ide it cann`t be done hence your nice option thomas

would still like to know if this approach would work

Jope · 14 June 2010, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicfrog

would still like to know if this approach would work

What approach? Plugging a HD or flash drive to the IDE bus?

Yeah, that will work. CD-ROMs often won't remove the IDE delay..

cosmicfrog · 14 June 2010, 15:16

the

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicfrog

just decrease the boot priority on the ide drive to lower than the scsi one

approach

thomas · 14 June 2010, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicfrog

the

approach

If you have something conntected to the IDE bus which has a boot priority, then there is no delay anyway. Also, if you don't want to boot from IDE, it has a lower priority already.

So to answer your question: no, the boot priority does not influence the delay time. Not because it would not work, but because it does not apply.

cosmicfrog · 14 June 2010, 16:08

thanks,
i know haveing something in the ide port skips the 30 sec wait (over simplified but you know)

one day I might have the hardware to play with, I wish i wish, I wish

rkauer · 14 June 2010, 17:44

Another option is simply use a HD or CF Amiga-partitioned but without a bootable partition.

Delay killed and another mass storage device inside the Amiga.

Hewitson · 15 June 2010, 07:44

Does this delay occur even when no IDE controller is present? My A2000 takes forever to start up.

gulliver · 15 June 2010, 08:07

@Hewitson

As lon as there is a scsi.device module inside the kickstart rom, that will happen, it doesnt matter if you have a controller present or not.

Jope · 15 June 2010, 13:53

It will not delay the boot in a500/a2000 where the ide controller is not found.

Charlie · 15 June 2010, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

It will not delay the boot in a500/a2000 where the ide controller is not found.

Ah, is this the answer to Zetr0's question? If he doesn't mind attacking a few tracks on his motherboard...

Jope · 15 June 2010, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

Ah, is this the answer to Zetr0's question? If he doesn't mind attacking a few tracks on his motherboard...

No, it was an answer to Hewitson's query. I gave my opinion to Zetro's problem in post #5 to this thread..

thomas · 15 June 2010, 14:48

I see these options for the OP:

1- pure hardware solution: connect something to the IDE controller which prevents the driver from waiting for responses, be it a terminator or an actual IDE device, for example a CF card reader

2- combined hardware/software solution: make your own Kickstart ROM without scsi.device or with a patched scsi.device. Or add some flash ROM solution which replaces/patches scsi.device. Deneb USB comes to mind.

3- software only solution: put the 3.0 ROMs back in and use Blizkick or the like to load a 3.1 ROM with patched/replaced scsi.device

I don't think there are many more choices.

Edit: option 2 includes the upgrade to a Cyberstorm Mk3 or PPC which offers to disable the IDE driver in its firmware.

14 June 2010, 03:41	#1
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Removing the IDE Wait on Kickstart 3.1 Hello there my fellow forum chummies, I am here tapping again with yet a touch of insomnia with hope that you can help me solve this problem once and for all.. As some of you may know I have an A4000, I am quite lucky to say that she is equipped with a Cyberstorm Mk2 060 + the CyberSCSI 2 as well. All is good and she has plent of ramto play with at the moment. I have a OS3.9 Classic Workbench with both Boing Bags 1 and 2 installed and she is running a dream via 640x512 (interlaced). Now she is running from SCSI an 18.1GB 68pin SCSI HDD, and is very quick in its action and activity.... however... the initial booting is killing me.. The wait Kickstart 3.1 implements for IDE devices to respond is an absolute abhorrent waste of time. nearly 30 seconds (feels longer) before the CyberSCSI is enquired and starts the SCSI boot sequence. I have tried (and built my own) IDE Terminator and it works well however I dont want to loose the IDE, I just DONT want to boot from it, is there a way or a modification I can do to the KickROM that will reduce this epic wast of a wait to somthing like 4 or 5 seconds? Also the pointless - epileptic fit inducing IDE LED activity strobing /flashing is too much, there must be a better way than pluming IDE pins 3 and 5 via 47k resistors to pin 39??? I humbly appreciate any ideas, and I look forward to sharing my A4000 build log with you all =)

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14 June 2010, 04:01	#2
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	Check out for the solution over here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...ight=ide+delay Good luck!

14 June 2010, 04:30	#3
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	What about a CD-ROM or even a DVD unit on the IDE chain, my friend?

14 June 2010, 06:18	#4
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	I am thinking, I dont know if possible, but maybe there is another possibility: You could burn a kickstart rom without ide support removing scsi.device from the kickstart build, and then after your computer completely boots from scsi and have workbench completely loaded, use loadmodule and load the A4000 scsi.device to have ide support enabled. So from now onwards your Amiga should quickly boot from the CyberSCSI.device, with no delay, and when you think suitable/necessary use loadmodule to load the ide support. I hope it works

14 June 2010, 09:20	#5
Cosmos Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: France Posts: 655	Add a battery & memory to store the boot priority (in the early-startup) A good hack for you, Zetro !

14 June 2010, 09:28	#6
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Remove scsi.device from your kickstart ROM, then use it disk based if you really want to use the IDE bus for something. (why? just get scside adapters and plumb everything to the scsi bus) Or get a CSmk3 that has an idekiller built into the firmware.

14 June 2010, 12:40	#7
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	just decrease the boot priority on the ide drive to lower than the scsi one simples well simple if it works, would love to test

14 June 2010, 13:46	#9
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	but I read it that he wants to keep the ide available obviously if there is no HDD attached to the ide it cann`t be done hence your nice option thomas would still like to know if this approach would work

14 June 2010, 16:08	#13
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	thanks, i know haveing something in the ide port skips the 30 sec wait (over simplified but you know) one day I might have the hardware to play with, I wish i wish, I wish

14 June 2010, 17:44	#14
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Another option is simply use a HD or CF Amiga-partitioned but without a bootable partition. Delay killed and another mass storage device inside the Amiga.

15 June 2010, 07:44	#15
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,771	Does this delay occur even when no IDE controller is present? My A2000 takes forever to start up.

15 June 2010, 08:07	#16
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	@Hewitson As lon as there is a scsi.device module inside the kickstart rom, that will happen, it doesnt matter if you have a controller present or not.

15 June 2010, 13:53	#17
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	It will not delay the boot in a500/a2000 where the ide controller is not found.

15 June 2010, 14:48	#20
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	I see these options for the OP: 1- pure hardware solution: connect something to the IDE controller which prevents the driver from waiting for responses, be it a terminator or an actual IDE device, for example a CF card reader 2- combined hardware/software solution: make your own Kickstart ROM without scsi.device or with a patched scsi.device. Or add some flash ROM solution which replaces/patches scsi.device. Deneb USB comes to mind. 3- software only solution: put the 3.0 ROMs back in and use Blizkick or the like to load a 3.1 ROM with patched/replaced scsi.device I don't think there are many more choices. Edit: option 2 includes the upgrade to a Cyberstorm Mk3 or PPC which offers to disable the IDE driver in its firmware.

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