how to draw 3D graphics with assembly ? make video games?

[CHADBRODIE]

for the first elite it was moved development 68000 assembly language -> 80286 assembler does anybody know what elite 2 was coded in??? just want to make a racer sim/space sim, are there any tutorials on creating/animating very basic vectors. no complicated graphics anything I just want to get a game down !!@ I have knowledge of coding my own rpgs in C so its very weird for me to transition to assembly but not impossible [ Show youtube player ]

[VladR]

You really don't want to start experimenting with 3D gfx in Asm.

You need a productive dev environment where it's instant to rebuild the code and be able to use debugger.

Something like visual studio.

When you finally make sense of all 3D concepts and have a demo running - only then start thinking about porting certain routines to Asm.

I would recommend starting experimenting on PC and only when everything works port the code to Amiga.

[redblade]

Below is a book that has been converted to .html format.

https://amigasourcecodepreservation....e-3d-graphics/

I think the book is also available for the Atari-ST as well.

There was a Danish tutorial online but I can't find the site but it was written for the A500 so it was not system friendly (the Screen buffer was at $50000 but that can be easily fixed).

[Tigerskunk]

Yep, don't do it in asm.

Just use C, and get your stuff as fast as you can later on with Amiga specifics (bitplanes, etc).

There are some good threads here on EAB about this.

like this one:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=93740

[deimos]

I'd recommend this: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98525

I have written a nearly decent 3D system using it, the start of a flight simulator game, 90% C (using gcc), 10% assembler (using vasm).

[CHADBRODIE]

are there any vector\ gfx\ 3D tutorials for asm? im fluent with asm86x [C89], but not really a fan of newer versions of visual studio. what about some video game engines for AOS? like using lightwave with Wazp3D ? .
what about modding 3D construction kit and using the maps importing them into your own games? how about some software you guys would suggest to use maybe some 3D utils? . why would you tell me not to program in asm, are you underestimating me aha ? nothing great comes easy

[deimos]

Originally Posted by CHADBRODIE

why would you tell me not to program in asm, are you underestimating me aha ? nothing great comes easy

It is nothing to do with your abilities or our estimation of them, it is simply that it is not necessary to use assembly language to do good, fast, 3D graphics, particularly with how good modern compilers and optimisers have become.

If you want to, that's up to you, but you'll probably get more help if you separate the questions about the 3D graphics algorithms from the actual technicalities of how to implement them in assembly language.

[commodorejohn]

The key component for doing 3D graphics, in any language, is learning how the math works, and for that I recommend the book 3D Math Primer for Graphics and Game Development. For additional enlightenment and specific techniques and advice for 3D graphics done at a low level without hardware assistance, check out the relevant bits of Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book.

[dodke]

It's easier to do higher level optimisations in C than if you write assembly. If you're aiming for 68000 you should use tables for most calculations. If you do the calculations normally first you will end up throwing the code away when you implement precalculation and tables anyway. It would be a bit of a waste of time to write the initial unoptimised solution in assembly.

[VladR]

Originally Posted by CHADBRODIE

why would you tell me not to program in asm, are you underestimating me aha ? nothing great comes easy

We're merely offering advice based on experience.


It's much more productive to experiment in high level language and only once it works and you understand it thoroughly, then go implement the most important parts in asm.


I'm pretty sure it's on the order of 5x-10x faster experimenting in C rather than handling all the stupid bits (division) and other issues when you are at the level of the metal.


Listen, I myself am doing both game and 3d engine in full asm. But I wouldn't really dare to recommend that approach to anybody unless they are bona fide enemy...

[VladR]

Originally Posted by deimos

I'd recommend this: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98525

I have written a nearly decent 3D system using it, the start of a flight simulator game, 90% C (using gcc), 10% assembler (using vasm).

90:10 ratio


Sounds about right and it's a very smart use of your time.


CHADBRODIE : The further you push that ratio, the less additional performance you get per day burnt on debugging


For a real challenge, why don't you throw away assembler ? Real coders write code in hexa


3F
80 00
03 1B
BC BC
7F WTF

[VladR]

What a great timing on the thread

I just spent 1.5 days debugging my assembler code. My 3D scene has over 1,500 triangles.

But one, just one fu*king polygon managed to screw the clipping, resulting in an ugly glitch

Signed Post-Division 32-bit Math in ASM can be sometimes nasty b*tch.


I can thus wholeheartedly recommend ditching C and diving deep to ASM.

it. Is. So. Much. FUN

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by VladR

I can thus wholeheartedly recommend ditching C and diving deep to ASM.

Depends on the application.

I remember once doing a programming assignment in C, because that's what the teacher said we must use. I spent hours on it, the code was fine, I still to this day don't know why it didn't work.

Rewrote the whole thing in assembly, worked perfectly the very first time.

[coldacid]

Hewitson, I think he was being sarcastic with that line.

[meynaf]

The more you write in ASM, the better you become at doing it. But you also become better with other languages as well because with ASM experience you really know what you're doing.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by meynaf

The more you write in ASM, the better you become at doing it. But you also become better with other languages as well because with ASM experience you really know what you're doing.

^ This. It's not great for portability, and other languages are generally better for productivity, but the value of machine-level programming for gaining a real understanding of what's going on under the hood with any other language and for building one's problem-solving skills should not be underestimated. I'm a much better programmer now than I was before I started dabbling with it.