"Pure" platformers?

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by pce_gamer

lilalurl: You're trying too hard to find flaws in a game that pretty much doesn't have any. Instead of focusing on the negative (and because there are hundreds of other platform games besides Mario), focus on some positive examples on the Amiga. I rather see some Amiga game examples and their strengths.

I'm just pointing out a flaw that for me does not make the game enjoyable (and proving the existence of the problem since while it is obvious to me it is not to others ).

I won't spend much time like others defending the amiga/providing examples because as I said, except few titles I am not especially into the platforming genre and besides I do not especially like most of the amiga platformers.

I like the Turrican series, Second Samurai, Wiz'n Liz, Alfred Chicken can be fun in short sessions and maybe I forgot some others.

As you can see, most of those are far from being 'pure' (or whatever they are called) platform games such as Mario so I am not sure you would have any interest towards them.


If I would want to spend some time jumping around it would probably playing some Trials maps in UT2004. [ Show youtube player ] (it's 3D platforming though so you may not like it)

[PowerPie5000]

I still prefer Sonic but Mario games are ok on the Nes, Snes and old Gameboy .... but i sometimes find them a bit slow

Both Zool games on the old Miggy were great... nice and fast.... like Superfrog and Sonic

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

hough.

THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION AND IS NO MORE OR LESS VALID THAN ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION.

OFCOURSE its YOUR OPINION. You don't have to apologise. Its NOT necessary to do so. Its a video game FFS, there MUST be some subjectivity. BUT when one BILLION people say one thing and then 5 others on an obscure board say otherwise, well you might wonder where the truth lies..its unbelievable that people can serioulsy argue that the Mario series of platformers-renowned not only as the best in thir genre by virtually every game critic that ever lived, but voted as one of the best games EVER, is not as good as one or two Amiga platformers. But as they say opinions are like arseholes,everyone' got one.

You DON"T have to apologize for expressing your opinion. Otherwise EVERY discussion here about a game can be simply ended before its begun with one reply: "thats YOUR opinion, its not mine, lets not discuss it". What's the point.

[Retro-Nerd]

Super Mario = Mass marketing = a lot of casual gamers with opinions too.

Here on EAB you also find gamer with a deep computer/console background, they played the classics since the late 70s/early 80s and have preferences.

The most computer games were designed for are Joystick control and worked fine at that time. I'm a fan of "button jumping" games too, no doubt. A pad suits Super Mario perfectly , but NOT a Lionheart or a Turrican. The programmer prefered a joystick control and indeed a pad isn't suitable here.

There is no real truth. Eat it or not.

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Erm, yes I think you did. At least that is what I think your post implied. You could have put a 'I think' (like I did) in your post and that is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Everybody has his opinion about how a 'perfect' game should look and 'feel'.
Btw : Using words like 'bias', 'ignorant' and 'fanboyish' lead to the 'deduction' that you aren't really accepting that people could not agree to your point of view

You are being ridiculous by stating the obvious. Ofcourse its HIS opinion based on his experience, and he gives perfectly valid reason why he thinks that ie like I have: the level design, the tight and intuitive controls and controllers. (FFS my 70 year old father can play SMB with a joypad, he'd never get that with a joystick.) Thats what's known as "reasonable discussion". His points and mine are valid. Its YOURS that have no substance so you make the pointless remarks along the lines "Its your opinion, its not mine, therefore its not worth discusssing". Well you can end 95% of discussion quickly this way and then have NO discussion.

But you take it further accusing me (and him) of Nintendo fanboyism despite the fact I've owned a SNES for 1 year, an Amiga for 17 years, and all I've said simply that the Mario series are the best examples of platforming games, and that 99% of people would say a joypad is more intuitive and better suited to that genre. Yes that genre might not be everyone's cup of tea, but thats the genre being discussed. Yes everyone has an opinion about how a game should look and feel, but contrary to what you think, those opinions are not ALL unique. In fact, most end up the same. Gaming opinions are not as diverse as you might like to believe, because a good game is a good game, period, and thats why many varied professional gaming writers, and ordinary players will usually agree about what's a great game and what isn't. Most agree that SMB is the best example of its kind, and one of the best video games EVER. Its not that I can't accept your different opinion, its the fact that 1 billion others can't accept yours, but you argue as if YOU are right and the rest are wrong..

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by stefcep

BUT when one BILLION people say one thing and then 5 others on an obscure board say otherwise, well you might wonder where the truth lies..

so, in todays age of marketting, I wonder how many records will be sold by say... Rihanna or Leona Lewis this year?

and how many records will be sold by Ludwig Van Beethoven?

By your reckoning Ludwig is clearly the worse musician, and shouldnt get a look-in right?

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by stefcep

a good game is a good game, period

As much as I'd like to agree with you...

NO.

That's utter rubbish

A good game, is another's good game, which is another's bad game, which is another's worst game, which is another's favourite game...

I personally like Mario, not as a mate, but as a game, and the same goes for Sonic, I just GET them. I also GET other games that others don't. Shit happens

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Super Mario = Mass marketing = a lot of casual gamers with opinions too.

Here on EAB you also find gamer with a deep computer/console background, they played the classics since the late 70s/early 80s and have preferences.

The most computer games were designed for are Joystick control and worked fine at that time. I'm a fan of "button jumping" games too, no doubt. A pad suits Super Mario perfectly , but NOT a Lionheart or a Turrican. The programmer prefered a joystick control and indeed a pad isn't suitable here.

There is no real truth. Eat it or not.

I doubt that most computer games were designed for a joystick,yes many were in the 70's and early 80's, but don't forget a hell of a lot game and watches (and simpler rip-offs) were sold at the time and once the ATARI 2600 died, Nintendo and Sega dominated, and that meant joypads.

I never said that ALL games play better with joypad, but i've found that many original joystick games play better with a joypad. Super star dust is better with a joystick as well, but its even more playable with analogue thumbstick. Sensi soccer is a dream on winuae with a thumbstick. Both can be picked up far quicker than playing with a joystick. My 11 year old son is testamanet to that.

[BippyM]

I too prefer 'up' for jump, it just feels more natural to me..

Why would pushing up do anything else? You don't have a seperate button to crouch.. or do you?? Up jump, down crouch!!

Maybe it's me!

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

so, in todays age of marketting, I wonder how many records will be sold by say... Rihanna or Leona Lewis this year?

and how many records will be sold by Ludwig Van Beethoven?

By your reckoning Ludwig is clearly the worse musician, and shouldnt get a look-in right?

AAHH but professional music critics/reviewers-even pop critics would never say that Rihanna is a better musician than Beethoven, or Queen for example. Yet professional gaming reviewers all agree about SMB. They will even say that a game that didn't sell well, should have. Its not always just about mass marketing. Quality is quality.

[Retro-Nerd]

My example is BC Kid. A fine PCE port and a very pure platformer. There is a joystick control with "up" and a pad control with a second button for jump.

Well, both controls works fine. I cannot make a clear preference. It depends on how good they've made the controls for a game. Yes, Mario is a good example for smooth and decent pad control, but i have also played a lot of console games with a bad jump control (delays, inaccurate..). This happens in shitty Amiga platformer too.

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by stefcep

AAHH but professional music critics/reviewers-even pop critics would never say that Rihanna is a better musician than Beethoven, or Queen for example. Yet professional gaming reviewers all agree about SMB. They will even say that a game that didn't sell well, should have. Its not always just about mass marketing. Quality is quality.

Again, you are wrong.

There are many people who will review music and rate artists such as Rihanna better than Queen or Beethoven.

It happens. I don't agree with it, but it happens.

I no single situation do all "professional <insert specific artform> reviewers" agree on anything

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by bippym

I too prefer 'up' for jump, it just feels more natural to me..

Why would pushing up do anything else? You don't have a seperate button to crouch.. or do you?? Up jump, down crouch!!

Maybe it's me!

becauie its 1. more precise to push a button for up, as you might mean to push up on the stick but end up pushing up-diagonal, and 2. a finger reflex to push a button is faster than a wrist reflex to push a stick up. These two things mean that the controller isn't limiting your performance, only your ability. That means less frustration.

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

Again, you are wrong.

There are many people who will review music and rate artists such as Rihanna better than Queen or Beethoven.

It happens. I don't agree with it, but it happens.

I no single situation do all "professional <insert specific artform> reviewers" agree on anything

Really?? Name ONE.

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by stefcep

AAHH but professional music critics/reviewers-even pop critics would never say that Rihanna is a better musician than Beethoven, or Queen for example.

I happen to think Queen are over-rated crap as well. And I happen to be a trained musician myself! Oh no! I have an opinion!

Yet professional gaming reviewers all agree about SMB. They will even say that a game that didn't sell well, should have. Its not always just about mass marketing. Quality is quality.

1) you were talking of the "billions" of people who rate mario, now you switch to your arguement being about a handful of reviewers?

2) "professional gaming reviewers" ... lmao. what makes these people more qualified in their opinions than me, you, or anyone else on this board? Oh right, they get paid (inclduing nice little bonuses from Nintendo & friends no doubt) for voicing their opinion.

Have a look around, i'm sure you'll find some reviewers who have also written some pretty good reviews which -wont- claim mario to be the accolade you regard it as.

[killergorilla]

Have you ever played Street Fighter 2?

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by stefcep

becauie its 1. more precise to push a button for up, as you might mean to push up on the stick but end up pushing up-diagonal, and 2. a finger reflex to push a button is faster than a wrist reflex to push a stick up. These two things mean that the controller isn't limiting your performance, only your ability. That means less frustration.

hang on. I'm using a pad. i have my left thumb on the d-pad. i 'shuffle' that thumb upwards to jump, (as i would for left/right) but yet moving my right thumb from one button onto another is faster and more precise? in what universe? one where basic laws of physics dont apply?

[Retro-Nerd]

Only a crappy controller limits your performance, no matter if it's a stick or a pad.

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

As much as I'd like to agree with you...

NO.

That's utter rubbish

A good game, is another's good game, which is another's bad game, which is another's worst game, which is another's favourite game...

I personally like Mario, not as a mate, but as a game, and the same goes for Sonic, I just GET them. I also GET other games that others don't. Shit happens

WRONG. MOST people will agree whether a game is good or not. What people don't agree on is if they like a particular GENRE of a game. As an example personally I find adventure games boring, including games like Zelda. I also don't like sim-type games, and i don't like resource managment games like Civ. BUT those that like that genre will say the Zelda, and the Civ games are at the top in THAT genre. And I can see that. i just can't be arsed palying them.

[stefcep]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

hang on. I'm using a pad. i have my left thumb on the d-pad. i 'shuffle' that thumb upwards to jump, (as i would for left/right) but yet moving my right thumb from one button onto another is faster and more precise? in what universe? one where basic laws of physics dont apply?

Are you that stupid. you push a button to jump. not the d-pad.