English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 02 June 2020, 00:55   #101
DamienD
disengaged
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 16,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by spudje View Post
I agree with BippyM. However Utri007, however illegal Coffin is, apollo team is not selling it. The V4SA would have costed just the same with or without Coffin at A34. There is a dubious independent person selling ready made CF cards with Coffin. Some people on the Apollo forum are asking the Apollo guys to at least ban him. And here, just as with distancing from Coffin, they don't do that. And I fully agree that is harmful, most of all for their own credibility.
So going by your logic spudje; shall I upload "Amiga OS 3.9" and provide links for all to download???

It's ok, I don't want any money for it... I'm just happy to spread for free

That's exactly what the Apollo team are doing; they have torrent links to the "CoffinOS" distro on their website / forum for fuck sake!!!

...and yet they say they don't like / support CoffinOS.

Give me a break!!! Do they think people are stupid or something?
DamienD is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:00   #102
spudje
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,186
No, that's not what I'm saying. if you read my posts, you've seen that I also very much think they should distance from Coffin (as "officially" it's not theirs, but we all know better), or try to clear up the rights and make it legal. I was pointing out utri007, who was claiming Apollo is selling Coffin, that that claim is not true.
spudje is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:01   #103
Thomas Richter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
You know as well as I do that no one gives a shit about anyone pirating Windows 98.
That still doesn't make it legal. It is *really* that simple. If you want to distribute software, you need to have a copyright for doing so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Who cares. It's 20 years old.
I care. Isn't that enough?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post


They aren't selling the software.

Yes, of course they are selling it, along with the hardware. Apparently, people prefer to buy the hardware with this software, as otherwise this illegal bundle wouldn't exist in first place.


If Apollo would be a legal business, they had to pay royalties to distribute copyrighted software. Or distribute it without software, or with a software with a more permissive license. All these options exist, still - it apparently somebody decided that it would be just easier to pirate software, hack up the kickstart and distribute that as a bundle.
Thomas Richter is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:01   #104
DamienD
disengaged
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 16,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by spudje View Post
or try to clear up the rights and make it legal.
...which is exactly what I said to the main Apollo team spokesman, AKA "grond", much earlier in this thread before it all kicked off: << click >>

...but of course he avoided answering the accusations made by amiga-news.de / explaining the situation; and still does.
DamienD is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:03   #105
Thomas Richter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by BippyM View Post
Comparing Apollo Team to EAB is like comparing an Apple to an Orange. Both are fruit, but they are very different!

I afraid that is not the case. It does not matter for which purpose you distribute software. If you don't have license, you don't have a license. As simple as that.
Thomas Richter is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:06   #106
UberFreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the world
Posts: 342
Copyrights should be protected and enforced by their holders, which, for example, Nintendo does all the time.
If a copyrighted work is not actively protected for a long time (which is the case with OS3.9), I will happily download it without feeling any remorse.

Regarding CoffinOS, it is not sold, but freely distributed via torrent.
UberFreak is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:08   #107
BippyM
Global Moderator

BippyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Derby, UK
Age: 44
Posts: 9,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
I afraid that is not the case. It does not matter for which purpose you distribute software. If you don't have license, you don't have a license. As simple as that.



Which is why we are both fruit.. Giving away something considered as "abandoned" is not great, but is rife on the internet, selling that same stuff for profit... Well!!
BippyM is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:14   #108
spudje
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,186
So Damien, we don't disagree that much after all. However I think it's a bit unfair to condemn a whole team, that mostly has done quite some good work (Vampire, Revive 68k development of AROS, and one may argue that they contributed to the renewed interest to classic Amiga and mostly classic Amiga OS, seeing the "activity" from and between Hyperion & Cloanto).

Fully agree they should distance from Coffin (however cool a package it is). But I guess in the end if they don't it will bring them into trouble anyway.

I really really hope this Vampire Amikit will arrive soon and will be promoted by Apollo instead of Coffin.
spudje is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 01:37   #109
sean_sk
Gimmemore Commodore

 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
Yes, of course they are selling it, along with the hardware. Apparently, people prefer to buy the hardware with this software, as otherwise this illegal bundle wouldn't exist in first place.
No they are NOT Thomas, get your facts straight.
The fact is that at one time at Amiga 34 they were giving away CoffinOS for free with the Vampire V4 Standalone. Since then this has not happened.

Where in the following link do you see that they are giving away CoffinOS with the V4SA?

http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm...&subpage=order
sean_sk is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 02:06   #110
BippyM
Global Moderator

BippyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Derby, UK
Age: 44
Posts: 9,093
Anyone wanting to know what is on the programs partition of the image please see a listing here.. Note this is not intuitive, and is not going to be an easy read.. Oh it extracts to 22mb

I'll get teh system partition tomorrow, tired tonight
Attached Files
File Type: 7z COFFIN_PROGS.7z (1.89 MB, 47 views)
BippyM is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 02:14   #111
SquawkBox
Speedbump gimme goosebump
SquawkBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: France
Age: 46
Posts: 156
Send a message via ICQ to SquawkBox
I assume distributing (untampered with) Windows software is legal, as long as one doesn't provide a CD key or a crack along with it. A few months back, full Windows images could be downloaded from an official MS site (modern.IE, don't google it, site has been shut down). These images (at first, these were time-bombed then they opted for fully functional versions) could be loaded into VMWare for web developers to test their site against various versions of Internet Explorer and / or Edge browsers.
Also, I assume pre-activated versions of Windows and Office could have been offered to MSDN partners and organizations. It was Ok with MS, as long as said computer it was to be installed upon was used strictly for testing and development purposes.

Last edited by SquawkBox; 02 June 2020 at 02:37.
SquawkBox is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 02:19   #112
lmimmfn
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mullingar
Posts: 93
And this is the reason the Amiga needs to die, everyone bickering over nonsense.
What a joke!!!!
lmimmfn is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 07:45   #113
Bruce Abbott
Registered User

Bruce Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hastings, New Zealand
Posts: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmimmfn View Post
And this is the reason the Amiga needs to die, everyone bickering over nonsense.
What a joke!!!!
On the contrary, not only is the bickering keeping it alive, it adds to the retro experience!

30 years ago everybody complained about the price of Amiga software, and swore they would buy rather than pirate if prices went down (to less than the cost of a blank disk). A few of us insisted on staying legal to support producers, but eventually even we had to admit that cracking down on piracy wouldn't save a dying industry. Turns out the large supply of pirate software was driving sales of the hardware!

A few years later Commodore was dead and everybody moved to PCs. So you would think that today all commercial Amiga software would be abandonware or given to the community because the platform is dead. But no! Even today some Amiga software is worth enough that people are still bickering over the legalities! Which proves that the Amiga should not die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson
Err, the CoffinOS installer is 32GB???

That's several times larger than a macOS or Windows 10 Installation Image. What a bloated piece of shit!
Yep, if all you wanted was the OS then it's the ultimate example of bloat. But even if you stripped off all the games etc. it would still be a bloated piece of shit, because it includes OS 3.9.

Quote:
I don't really understand why anyone cares if 3.9 is being distributed as part of CoffinOS.
I don't care, but for different reasons than you might think. If anyone wants to spoil themselves with an SD card jam-packed with every piece of Amiga software ever produced then I say let them. This is just the modern equivalent of those hundreds of disks they used to have 30 years ago - far more than they could ever get full value out of and cheapening the experience.

As for 3.9, the official distribution is so onerous, and the OS itself so bloated and incompetently implemented it doesn't deserve any better. OTOH I don't mind if people are discouraged from using it, because it means fewer software titles will be produced that require it.

Quote:
It's about time we stopped caring about the legalities of 20 year old software.
It would be nice to think we could, but we can't because that 20 year old software is still under copyright and (I presume) still being sold.

I feel no shame in saying that I downloaded a pirate copy of OS 3.9 to evaluate - then uninstalled it and went back to 3.1. If it had been worth buying I would have. Today I purchased Roadshow - because it is worth buying. They had the good sense to distribute a demo version so people could legally see whether it was worth buying before plonking their money down.
Bruce Abbott is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 07:55   #114
AMike
Registered User
AMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: near Vienna/Austria
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post

As for the article on amiga-news.de; it was written "04.Nov.2019".
l.
Then go to Amiga News and the other five people who care about that. I think they are happy to find another guy who is willing to cry about the topic. But dont forget to close the Zone and the EAB Server full of copies and stop taking donations from the community. I think that would help that anyone taken your comments more serious. You are not in the position to judge others about their attitude concerning copyrights.

Last edited by AMike; 02 June 2020 at 08:22.
AMike is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 08:21   #115
AMike
Registered User
AMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: near Vienna/Austria
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BippyM View Post
The fact is, this image will only work with a vampire, and is supplied by the vampire team on their website.. Therefore, they are selling it!!
Hmm...I can't find a pricetag - but many torrentlinks. I have had serveral Vampires including SA V4 - it never comes with Coffin, nor did I payed money for that.
AMike is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 08:24   #116
Minuous
Coder/webmaster/gamer
Minuous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canberra/Australia
Posts: 2,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott View Post
it would still be a bloated piece of shit, because it includes OS 3.9.

As for 3.9, the official distribution is so onerous, and the OS itself so bloated and incompetently implemented it doesn't deserve any better.
Incompetently implemented how? And as for bloat, it's about 10Mb or so without the extensive collection of WB backdrops and the optional internet software; that's hardly bloated.

Quote:
OTOH I don't mind if people are discouraged from using it, because it means fewer software titles will be produced that require it.
So you seem to want everyone to restrict themselves to only using a crap 26 year old version of the OS, and force programmers to only target that version. You say "the Amiga should not die" but seem to be doing your best to kill it. As a user, why would I want to miss out on all the improvements made over the past 26 years? As a developer, why would I want my users to miss out on those improvements?
Minuous is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 09:36   #117
Thomas Richter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_sk View Post
No they are NOT Thomas, get your facts straight.
Apparently, some people accquired the hardware along with the software, and paid money for the product consisting of a bundle of hardware and software. That is "selling it".


However, no matter whether that was a "free service" or not: It remains illegal to begin with. You cannot legally distribute 3.9 components without a license. Even if the vampire would have been given away for free, it does not make a difference concerning the legal status of the affair.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_sk View Post
The fact is that at one time at Amiga 34 they were giving away CoffinOS for free with the Vampire V4 Standalone.
Yes, without having a license for doing so.
Thomas Richter is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 09:56   #118
DamienD
disengaged
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 16,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMike View Post
Then go to Amiga News and the other five people who care about that. I think they are happy to find another guy who is willing to cry about the topic. But dont forget to close the Zone and the EAB Server full of copies and stop taking donations from the community. I think that would help that anyone taken your comments more serious. You are not in the position to judge others about their attitude concerning copyrights.
The "EAB File Server" has already been taken offline until further notice; so that we can go through and remove any WB files / KS ROMs that we weren't aware of.

Again, you show me exactly where "Amiga OS files / Kickstart ROMs and commercial programs / games still for sale" are on any EAB resource!!!

...and as BippyM rightly pointed out: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...2&postcount=96.

And as I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
...but let's be honest, and I'm not saying it's ok... a few old KS ROMs is totally different to distributing the entire "Amiga OS 3.9" isn't it?
DamienD is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 10:43   #119
OlafSch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
That still doesn't make it legal. It is *really* that simple. If you want to distribute software, you need to have a copyright for doing so.




I care. Isn't that enough?





Yes, of course they are selling it, along with the hardware. Apparently, people prefer to buy the hardware with this software, as otherwise this illegal bundle wouldn't exist in first place.


If Apollo would be a legal business, they had to pay royalties to distribute copyrighted software. Or distribute it without software, or with a software with a more permissive license. All these options exist, still - it apparently somebody decided that it would be just easier to pirate software, hack up the kickstart and distribute that as a bundle.
officially AROS is the main system now. That includes RTG, not your beloved P96. Your constant moaning starts to nerve.

We know already how you love certain companies and want them to get paid but the constant repeating nerves already.
OlafSch is offline  
Old 02 June 2020, 10:46   #120
OlafSch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
Well, it's the same team doing both so...


Exactly; and ALB42 has done just that.
BTW ALB42 has removed the vampire hardware detection

And now? One friend of you less?

The community behaves in parts silly
OlafSch is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4 TuKo Amiga scene 332 26 August 2018 17:07
Please Apollo team, a Mini PCIE slot is a MUST have for future Vampire Juz400 Amiga scene 42 20 March 2017 22:45
Interview with Gunnar from Vampire team - news! rats Amiga scene 9 31 August 2016 19:21
Join the Vampire / Aros 68k - Team OlafSch Amiga scene 53 06 March 2016 20:22

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.10970 seconds with 16 queries