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Old 15 May 2020, 18:20   #21
nogginthenog
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Originally Posted by Fastdruid View Post
The 030 had an MMU but the "EC" versions didn't (eg the 68EC030 fitted to the A4000/030).
Anything with Zorro III needed an MMU.
But a A4000/030 has Zorro III?
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Old 16 May 2020, 05:57   #22
stevsurv
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Dungeon Master 2 comes to mind. Min 68020 but runs more smoothly on 030 or 040 processors. I used to play it to death on my 68030 A2000 b.i.t.d! Responding to orig post.
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Old 16 May 2020, 09:17   #23
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For me Frontier Elite II and Wing Commander painfully slow on my bog standard 2000. I think this was the main reason I eventually got an 030 accelerator.
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Old 16 May 2020, 10:44   #24
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Originally Posted by stevsurv View Post
Dungeon Master 2 comes to mind. Min 68020 but runs more smoothly on 030 or 040 processors. I used to play it to death on my 68030 A2000 b.i.t.d! Responding to orig post.
Haha so you weren't fooled by the "AGA" sticker? =)

How much chip memory did you have though? Like did it work with 512k OCS chip + >2M fast or did you use 1M ECS chip + >1M fast?

Back in the day we thought it required 2M chip ECS minimum but developers weren't exactly crystal clear. =P
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Old 16 May 2020, 20:40   #25
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Originally Posted by AmigaHope View Post
Haha so you weren't fooled by the "AGA" sticker? =)

How much chip memory did you have though? Like did it work with 512k OCS chip + >2M fast or did you use 1M ECS chip + >1M fast?

Back in the day we thought it required 2M chip ECS minimum but developers weren't exactly crystal clear. =P

I had the standard 1M chip and an 8 meg mem card with HD setup in Amigados 2.0. I upgraded the chip mem to 2 meg a while later. The game ran perfectly in both configs. A2000 MB was a rev 6.2.



The docs said A1200 min to run it but the game box had a sticker on the front with "minimum 68020 to run" the game.


I even had a multi option trainer that launched the game. Loved cheating on it!
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Old 18 May 2020, 02:28   #26
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I had the standard 1M chip and an 8 meg mem card with HD setup in Amigados 2.0. I upgraded the chip mem to 2 meg a while later. The game ran perfectly in both configs. A2000 MB was a rev 6.2.

The docs said A1200 min to run it but the game box had a sticker on the front with "minimum 68020 to run" the game.

Yeah I always wondered what the actual requirements were. Like, would it work on 512k chipram as long as you had an 020 and 2M fast RAM? I suppose just playing in UAE could answer that...
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Old 18 May 2020, 10:38   #27
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Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
But a A4000/030 has Zorro III?
Indeed, the MMU isn't needed for Zorro-III, which is all handled by Buster. There's nothing in a basic Amiga setup that requires the MMU, though it can be used for additional functionality like debugging, virtual memory etc.
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Old 18 May 2020, 13:37   #28
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There's nothing in a basic Amiga setup that requires the MMU
Off topic Early A3000's used the MMU to load kickstart from disk.

Ambermoon will use a more powerful CPU to add floor and ceiling textures but it is not required to play without.
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Old 21 May 2020, 21:05   #29
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At difference from DOS games where some on these ones don't start if you haven't minimun processor required, Amiga Games run with base processor minimun: OCS/ECS games require minimun 68000 and any AGA games require minimun 68EC020.
The only thing to check if these 68EC020 require fast memory to start
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Old 22 May 2020, 22:25   #30
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At difference from DOS games where some on these ones don't start if you haven't minimun processor required, Amiga Games run with base processor minimun: OCS/ECS games require minimun 68000 and any AGA games require minimun 68EC020.
The only thing to check if these 68EC020 require fast memory to start

We were just discussing Dungeon Master 2, which runs fine on ECS (and OCS possibly?) but requires a 68020+ plus sufficient RAM. The sticker on the box said AGA, but it does not in fact require AGA.
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Old 24 May 2020, 21:59   #31
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great! Dungeon Master II is an exception: OCS games that require 68020 to start.
i tryed this game in WinUAE with this configuration:

Kickstart 1.3
Workbench 1.3.2
chipset OCS
cpu= 68EC020
Chip RAM= 512k
Slow RAM= 1 MB
DF0: only

It works, but there is not enough memory to load music and sound effects so the game is totally silent.

With the same configuration, but with 1,5 MB Slow RAM there is music and sound effects
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Old 31 May 2020, 17:09   #32
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I think Star Trek - 25th Anniversary was the same - the box implied the system requirements to be higher than they actually were. I don't think Interplay thought we were as intelligent as PC owners at understanding system requirements.

I gather that the fastest way to play Sim City 2000 on an Amiga is actually to run a (classic) Mac emulator and play the Mac version through that - proof of just how badly programmed it was
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Old 31 May 2020, 22:02   #33
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ST:25 will show wrong colours with ECS/OCS last time I tried.
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Old 01 June 2020, 10:52   #34
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I gather that the fastest way to play Sim City 2000 on an Amiga is actually to run a (classic) Mac emulator and play the Mac version through that - proof of just how badly programmed it was
It's not really bad programming, but bad decisions for target hardware. It was intended to run on native screenmodes and an '020, which meant it was limited to AGA and interlace if you wanted it in high resolution mode. This was, of course, slow due to the hardware itself.

The Mac version ran in a standard window, so could be resized to suit any resolution without flicker, and also took advantage of hardware graphics acceleration so wasn't held back by the Amiga chipset. It could also take advantage of Mac emulation tricks for speeding up the display, such as using the MMU to avoid unnecessary refreshing and reducing the number of colours needed (which would need to be explicitly supported in-game to work on the Amiga version). I played the Mac version, but then I had a graphics card so playing under Mac emulation was like a dream compared to the native Amiga version. Running the Mac emulation on a 256-colour interlaced screen with a 68020 probably wouldn't be much fun at all...

So it's not that it's badly programmed as such, but the Amiga and Mac versions had very different target hardware.
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