Restoring an Amiga 3000...

[thomas]

40.70 is said to be for A4000T only. It lacks workbench.library but has drivers for onboard-SCSI and onboard-IDE. 40.68 is the standard version of 3.1. It has workbench.library and only one onboard driver (probably SCSI for the A3000, but IDE for the A4000D).

See http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31.html (comments at the bottom of the page).

[alexh]

There was a KS3.1 r40.70 for the A3000 but a minority of people said that they had problems with certain SCSI hardware so when VillageTronic officially released the A3000 ROM version they released the earlier r40.68 version.

As you know there are differences between an A3000 r40.68 and an A4000D r40.68 and are probably differences between an A3000 r40.70 and a A4000T r40.70?

The problem is I cannot tell which version myself or Ze_ro has just from looking at the files size & CRC32

I am almost sure that I have an r40.70 SuperKickstart file on my A3000, but it isnt here so I cannot tell... all I have is the file.

Ze_ro says that his A3000 (with KS1.4 using SuperKickstart files) reports it's kickstart as 2.04 r37.174 at one stage during boot and then later on as 3.1 r40.78 so you can see our dilema.

[thomas]

I don't see a dilemma. Just disconnect the HDD and power on, then you see what it has in ROM. From then on everything is a question of installing the right software into the right places (and even more important, not to format anything before all the needed software is backed up). And a little investigation which file is store where on the HDD.

Maybe it is easy for me to say this, as I never had an A3000, but I cannot believe that this is all so complicated. IMHO it does not matter if the ROM is 40.70 or 40.68, if only it boots.

[alexh]

But we're not sure Ze_ro has a SuperKS 3.1 r40.68 file or if he has a 2.04 and later Skicks to 3.1!

I guess it's "have a go" time.

[Ze_ro]

Originally Posted by alexh

Have you tried selecting 1.3 after holding down both mouse buttons on bootup and see if it works?

Yes, but it just asks me to insert a Super-Kickstart disk, which I don't have. Does it try to find 1.3 on the hard drive too? When I choose 2.x, I end up getting 3.1... I assume these version numbers are hardcoded into Kickstart 1.4, right?

Also, I'm not 100% sure of that CRC... I couldn't find a program for the Amiga to calculate the CRC (Everything on Aminet is source code, and I have no compiler installed). What I ended up doing was transfer the file to my Linux machine, Zip the file, and then run "zip -l" on it, which shows the CRC... So yeah...

Originally Posted by andreas

You guys trying to say Commodore did really ship BETA ROMs with the A3000?
Didn't know that nor did I expect it. I'm really curious to know about PC BIOS manufacturers which would dare ship a BETA BIOS in their motherboards!

In this case, it really doesn't matter, as you're never actually expected to use Kickstart 1.4... it's just there to load the REAL Kickstart off the hard drive. When I realized this was a beta ROM, I was a little annoyed myself, but in the end it doesn't matter as long as I have the right file on the hard drive.

Originally Posted by alexh

Ze_ro says that his A3000 (with KS1.4 using SuperKickstart files) reports it's kickstart as 2.04 r37.174 at one stage during boot and then later on as 3.1 r40.78 so you can see our dilema.

It turns out the splash screen that shows that is AmigaStart (although I'm likely running an older version than the one on Aminet). It also shows an incorrect Workbench version, and I have no idea where it's reading these numbers from, so it's entirely possible that it's just this program being stupid rather than weird kickstart happenings. However, if I run AmigaStart from a CLI after boot, it DOES correctly report my KS/WB versions. If I get time, I should try updating the program and see if anything changes.

Originally Posted by thomas

I don't see a dilemma. Just disconnect the HDD and power on, then you see what it has in ROM.

Thanks to a strange quirk (see #9 at the bottom), you can actually get into 1.4 without disconnecting anything. This leads to some strange things though.... If I disconnect all my hard drives before doing this, I get the animated disk-into-drive screen, with a message claiming that I'm using "1.4 Beta Exp". If I leave everything connected, it attempts to start WB and fails with a message saying I need at least Kickstart 2.0, but it dumps me to a CLI anyways. When I run version, it tells me I'm using Kickstart 36.16. Also, the maximize/raise-lower gadgets on the windows look very odd (like in this screenshot).

On the plus side, I was able to get the DataFlyer card working nicely, and it now happily reads/writes to a 1 GB drive I had sitting around (unfortunately, it seems the 3 GB drive I had is now dead, as it doesn't even spin up). The card is capable of booting in the 3000, although I still let the machine boot off the SCSI drive. I have easily enough space to copy the entire contents of the SCSI drive to this new one so I have some insurance when I format. Once I pick up a CD-ROM drive and an X-Surf card, it should make for a pretty happening system

[andreas]

In this case, it really doesn't matter, as you're never actually expected to use Kickstart 1.4... it's just there to load the REAL Kickstart off the hard drive.

Thank you for the information, the bit of "indirect loading" was unknown to me by now.
I seriously thought that the 1.4 is in the *ROM*!

So thomas, bury your hatchet again then. Commodore thus can't be accused of shipping beta hardware ROMs then, only something in-between (hardware that loads actual "ROM" from software etc.)

Sorry, I've never had nor seen an A3000, I only know that the missing MMU support in WinUAE appears to prevent ALL (!) A3000 kickstart ROMs from loading. (If justice reigned, A3000 users should be allowed to legally download each kickstart without paying any penny for AmigaForever, as they simply CANNOT use their ROMs in the emulator. None of them, that is. But oops -- that's just another story.)

[edit]
Ah wait, WindowsKiller's last year's post looks as to give proof for a REAL hardware 1.4 boot-ROM:

And there was only one 1.4 Boot-ROM for the A3000, that was 1.4 Beta 3 (36.16).

Beta3 = hardware ROM then. (I assume...)
Probably there's no soft-kicking needed then (if and only if you have 1.4b3)

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Ze_ro

Does it try to find 1.3 on the hard drive too?

Yes but it looks in a different partition.

When I choose 2.x, I end up getting 3.1... I assume these version numbers are hardcoded into Kickstart 1.4, right?

Correct.

Also, I'm not 100% sure of that CRC... I couldn't find a program for the Amiga to calculate the CRC (Everything on Aminet is source code, and I have no compiler installed). What I ended up doing was transfer the file to my Linux machine, Zip the file, and then run "zip -l" on it, which shows the CRC... So yeah...

As long as that zip -l shows the CRC of the file and not the CRC of the ZIP then it's probably good.

However, if I run AmigaStart from a CLI after boot, it DOES correctly report my KS/WB versions.

Still sounds fishy to me.

The [Dataflyer] card is capable of booting in the 3000, although I still let the machine boot off the SCSI drive.

Probably a good idea, the dataflyer cards are not the best / fastest.

Once I pick up a CD-ROM drive and an X-Surf card, it should make for a pretty happening system

I have that set-up. Remember when reformatting that KS1.4 can only read FFS formatted partition. If you want to use SFS (and I would) for other partitions that is fine.

[Ze_ro]

Well, I think I solved some of the mystery here... I tried putting "Run System:c/Version" as the first line of my startup-sequence script, and it correctly reports 40.68/40.42.... And it turns out that AmigaStart does in fact just read the environment variables $kickstart and $workbench, which aren't set by the time AmigaStart runs. If I "setenv kickstart 99.99" and "setenv workbench -1.-1", then run AmigaStart again, it does indeed report those numbers back to me. I'm curious about how it comes up with 37.175/38.36 by default though...

[InTheSand]

Originally Posted by Ze_ro

I've decided to restore my brothers old, forgotten Amiga 3000 that has been sitting in the basement for quite some time.

If it's been there for a while, I'd recommend checking the on-board battery. These can (and often do) leak and ruin A3000 and A4000 motherboards... See this site for further details: http://amiga.serveftp.net/battery.html

- Ali

[Ze_ro]

Luckily, my brother knew about this problem and clipped the battery out of there a few years back. Speaking of which, is there any way I can once again get a battery backed clock for the machine? Like installing a different battery that won't leak or something? Time stamps on files aren't terribly necessary, so unless there's an easy replacement, I'll probably just leave the machine thinking it's 1978.

Anyways, I have since formatted the hard drive, I'm running KS 3.1, WB 3.1, and have reinstalled pretty much all the worthwhile software I had before... the machine starts up MUCH faster now, and there isn't nearly as much nonsense cluttering up the filesystem. I ordered an X-Surf card, but I'm still waiting for it to arrive, so no networking going yet. Once I get the X-Surf card, I'll probably switch to using that for my IDE drive and put the DataFlyer card away... I'm assuming the X-Surf is likely faster, and I don't need to boot off the drive. In the DataFlyer manual, it mentions that not all hard drive controllers can handle drives that were formatted by other cards... does this mean I'll likely have to format the drive before I could use it on the X-Surf?

One piece of software I haven't installed that was on there before is MagicWB... is it even worthwhile installing this now, or is NewIcons a better choice? I don't have a graphics card, and I mostly use low-color high-res video modes, but I'd still prefer something a little better looking than the stock Commodore icons. Would I be looking at a large performance hit with either of these packages? I'm honestly not even entirely sure what either of these packages do aside from replacing the icons and helping with palette problems, but I'm hesitant to try either since it looks like uninstalling to try the other would be a huge pain.

Now that I think about it, assuming everything networks nicely, I could always just run an NTP server on my Linux machine and have the Amiga sync to that on boot.....

[alexh]

If you get an X-Surf card and you will be always connected to the net, you can do as I do and set up a connection to a Time Server. (Should read to end of msg before replying!)

But the answer is yes you can replace the battery with one less likely to leak. Having a battery on an A3000 can help, but you can always use the program "Batmem" to get over most problems!

Once I get the X-Surf card, I'll probably switch to using that for my IDE drive and put the DataFlyer card away... I'm assuming the X-Surf is likely faster

The IDE ports on the X-Surf are "freebies" they are not particularly fast and you cannot boot from them. You'll just have to see how good they are compared to the DF card, which is also pretty poor (A500 Zorro II design!)

One piece of software I haven't installed that was on there before is MagicWB... is it even worthwhile installing this now

I personally dont think so. Getting a good palette for ECS is difficult. Not sure what NewIcons looks like in 16-colors.

I have list of programs which are "must haves" for a hard drive enabled Amiga, MWB isnt one of them. Personal choice.

[Ze_ro]

Originally Posted by alexh

The IDE ports on the X-Surf are "freebies" they are not particularly fast and you cannot boot from them.

Right, but I don't think I need any of the more exotic features of IDE in this case, so I'm sure the X-Surf will do nicely, and save me a Zorro slot.

I personally dont think so. Getting a good palette for ECS is difficult. Not sure what NewIcons looks like in 16-colors.

So is NewIcons even worthwhile then? Most of the screenshots I've seen look quite nice, but are from systems using expensive graphics cards. If standard ECS doesn't offer enough colors for NewIcons, then things might end up looking crappy anyways, AND stealing system resources in a double whammy. Maybe I'll try it out in UAE first before I try it on the actual hardware.

I have list of programs which are "must haves" for a hard drive enabled Amiga, MWB isnt one of them. Personal choice.

Well, don't keep me in suspense, what are they??

[amiganer]

how could i replace file "kickstart" in dev with superkickstart file 3.1?

any download available?


how could i install WB 3.x then?

[TjLaZer]

Anyone know how to get a 3.1 super kickstart ROM?

I use to have this file years ago but I've lost it.

[rampartsagain]

workbench super kickstart disk v2.00 or 2.05 or your talking about the 3.1 kickstart rom chip v40.62 ???????

[TjLaZer]

No the devs:kickstart file

How are people putting kickstart 3.1 in there?

[thomas]

IIRC you just replace the 2.x file by the 3.1 one, i.e. give the 3.1 file the same name as the 2.x file had. And the file might just be a ROM image as used for WinUAE and the like.

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Anyone know how to get a 3.1 super kickstart ROM?

I use to have this file years ago but I've lost it.

ive got 40.62 and 40.55 (for the 3000)not sure what the last one is though.

[source]

I am trying to get my Dad's old A3000 up to spec. It is a A3000 desktop with 16 MHz 030. I removed the zips and replaced with a zip to simm converter with 16 meg fast and 2 meg chip. It has rev7 buster that is socketed. The one aspect that I want to upgrade the rom. it has the 1.4 rom. when you turn it on, it boots then flashes the screen and boots to 2.04. I have read elsewhere taht some 3000's need a rom tower to adapt newer roms to the old system. how can I found out if I need one to upgrade to 3.1 roms? Would I just be able to remove the old 1.4 roms and replace with these ones?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMIGA-3000-k...item3373bf623a

Thanks for your help

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Ze_ro

[*]Is it worth learning ARexx? I've been using Unix for about almost 10 years now, so I'm familiar with scripting languages, and I know that I can install REXX on my Linux machine, so I figure it could be worth learning... but does general Amiga systems administration involve many REXX scripts? I know my brother has a book on ARexx that came with his original Amiga 500, but I haven't read any of it yet.[/LIST]

IMO ARexx is one of the greatest things about Amigas. Scripting is the best way to take advantage of the Amiga's multi tasking OS. Much of the best productivity software had Arexx ports built in. It's a pretty logical and user friendly scripting language. I much prefer it to PERL, and if you don't need to be object oriented, or tie in with modern libraries like Python, but just want to maximize your personal use of your computer IMO it's the best scripting language.