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Old 16 February 2011, 06:01   #1
elpiloto
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Any way to backup original games

hi all,
im trying to backup some original games to preserve them with no succes. the games are lotus 2, space gun, castle master, terrorpods, golden axe, wolf child.

I tried with xcopy, d copy, projectd, maverik, lockpick and xDM with no luck, any ideas?

cheers
elpiloto
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Old 16 February 2011, 12:40   #2
deicidal
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I found the cyclone dongle the best thing in the good old days or you could try kryoflux
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Old 16 February 2011, 14:29   #3
elpiloto
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hi, thanks for the reply. I read a bit about kryoflux, as far as i understud, it can read, but cannot writte again to a disk. About the cyclone dongle, im trying to find some one to buy, no luck yet
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Old 16 February 2011, 14:40   #4
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I'm going to start backing up my original game disks too. Could you not use something to make them into ADF files?
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Old 16 February 2011, 14:44   #5
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Kryoflux should be able to write soon: http://www.softpres.org/news:2010-11-12
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Old 16 February 2011, 14:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpiloto View Post
hi, thanks for the reply. I read a bit about kryoflux, as far as i understud, it can read, but cannot writte again to a disk. About the cyclone dongle, im trying to find some one to buy, no luck yet
You could always make your own older type cyclone which was just a few wires crossed but still did a very good job
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Old 16 February 2011, 14:47   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK View Post
I'm going to start backing up my original game disks too. Could you not use something to make them into ADF files?
ADF file format cannot store copy protection. You need something like IPF or extended-ADF for that.
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Old 16 February 2011, 17:30   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deicidal View Post
You could always make your own older type cyclone which was just a few wires crossed but still did a very good job
do you have some schematic about cyclone? what about the newer version? i saw that it have some chips in there
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Old 16 February 2011, 17:34   #9
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Diagram available here

http://www.programmersheaven.com/dow.../download.aspx
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Old 16 February 2011, 17:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpiloto View Post
do you have some schematic about cyclone? what about the newer version? i saw that it have some chips in there
No idea about Cyclone, but my Syncro Express had a chip just for switching for an invisible passthru mode, that chip had nothing to do with copying.
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Old 16 February 2011, 19:44   #11
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Quote:
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Thank you guys, ill give it a try to it, will post results in some days

cheers
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Old 17 February 2011, 04:47   #12
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i bought a cyclone cartridge and x-copy back in the day, i lent to a friend and he made a copy of the circuit board (no chips) and it worked perfectly

on another note

i found that if you copied the whole disk using cyclone you couldn't make a copy from the copy, however if you copied the disk with nibble copy and then just used cyclone for the first track you could copy the copy

- a side note...
i could be mistaken, bearing in mind that during that time, i often watched Jesus on E's stoned outta my head.. HEY i was young then!
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Old 18 February 2011, 23:20   #13
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these days i found a dongle in middle of my amiga stuff, was thath cachet passive one, so i started bucking up, works fine, i allready backuped lotus2, wof child and golden axe, i had prables with castle master, no way , the game run its itro, you can choose your character after taht, when the game star loding .....fails. Tonight ill try to backup Space Gun

thank u all
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Old 19 February 2011, 17:15   #14
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sorry, my test are stopped, i dont find my original "nebulus2" and "shadow of the beast disk2" (yes i have only 5 or 6 game original)

ok, i found shadow of the beast disk2 and copy with cyclone

Last edited by cpiac64; 19 February 2011 at 23:26. Reason: add news
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Old 26 February 2011, 18:43   #15
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I've just tried Lotus 2 with Cyclone and dongle. Always protection failed after the manual page is entered. Tried APWM Nibble and APWM Index.
Anyone have some tips?

EDIT: Just found the manual, never knew that sometimes you needed to do it twice and use HD disks. I'll try that.

http://amiga-manuals.xiik.net/applic...Manual-ENG.pdf

Last edited by Eclipse; 26 February 2011 at 19:23. Reason: UPDATE:
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Old 28 February 2011, 16:11   #16
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The latter was a nice wrapping of "we did not get it right because the system is flawed".

All hardware copiers on the Amiga "shifted" the internal drive signal to the external one. The problem is that the signal is not regenerated this way ("analogue" copy) which also makes it impossible to precompensate data (because of the bit shift that is to be expected).

Therefore you have a generation loss. Usually this process works well for protection tracks, like Rob Northen CopyLock (usually found on 0.1), but fails miserable for completely protected (extended, with longtracks) disks due to heavier shift on later tracks (60+). The use of HD disks disguised some of the problems. But only to fail a little later due to wrong writing current.

Get a trace machine... or a KryoFlux... writing is around the corner.
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Old 28 February 2011, 20:57   #17
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I'm saving for a KryoFlux Although every time I check your sold out lol.
60+ is harder because of the faster surface speed the nearer you get to the outside I presume?
How did you fix that with Kryflux and a normal PC drive? (If it's explained in another thread by all means point me that way).
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Old 01 March 2011, 11:31   #18
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The drive spins at constant speed. Therefore bits on the inner tracks (especially after 60+) get denser (to each other). This is normal and happens on every system except for systems that reduce (adjust) write speed (e.g. older Apple systems) or capacity (e.g. C64). All other systems simply deal with it: Special combinations of bits are more prone to shifting. Think of a sine wave. The point where the signal crosses zero, is your flux change. Now imagine putting some bits close to each other. One with a value of +5, the other of -5. Remember that the process itself is analogue in nature. Now moving the second closer to the first will change the point of flux reversal. This will change timing - which is all the information you read from a disk, you do not read the strength of the signal. Now let's just, without going into more depth, say that you know that the following bit of information will malform your preceeding bit because it causes a shift -what can you do? You can delay it slightly! You KNOW what you want to read later, so you can modify the information you write to compensate for bit shift.

While this works when you KNOW what you are writing, it does not work when you force feed data from the internal to the external drive. You write it blindly... bit shift happens... the signal gets malformed... and maybe breaks - at least when doing another generation copy.

Precomping is no trickery. "Even" AmigaDOS has a function for this built in. Just set it for tracks that need precomping.

If have a PDF for this, taken from an old Shugart manual. PM me with your email, if you want to read more. Or I could zone it... I guess.
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Old 01 March 2011, 13:13   #19
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What about for instance Syncro express copier trying to do identical copies of the source by synchronizing the drives with each other like the "big" copier machines did. OK, it was rude and drive dependant but I got everything copied what I tried; the attempts could take 15mins to one hour as my drive speeds weren't too identical.
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Old 01 March 2011, 14:14   #20
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"Big copier machines" never ever copied anything blindly.
You had to insert the master, have a script describing what the disk content exactly was and how to write, and how to verify it.

Same process with KryoFlux and IPF files - the latter contains everything needed for remastering.
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