Individual Computers - New accelerator cards for A600 & A1200 - Page 4

kamelito · 13 September 2010, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

A discounted bundle of the new A600 accelerator + A603 + Indivision ECS would be cool. I'd be in.

Especially if the VGA cable was long enough to reach the place where the RF modulator used to be on my A600.

+1
If not I'll go for the A1200 path...

Schoenfeld · 13 September 2010, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predseda

Jens, it means you solved that problem that prevented you from completing development of A600 turboboard 3 years ago?

Well, yes, I'm not using 72-pin sockets at all in this design ;-) And it's actually 4 years. Time flies...

Jens

kamelito · 13 September 2010, 22:02

Jens,
I'm sorry to be a bit off topic, but minimig is there, Commodore one do have the minimig core, arcade gaming (http://www.arcaderetrogaming.com/) do already emulate the 64 and soon the 2600 and the Amiga all are based on HRM.
So what happened to the Clone-A ? I know that part of it is already used in Indivision products but I'm more interested in hardware emulated Amiga at the Hardware level.

Thanks
Kamel

Schoenfeld · 13 September 2010, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamelito

So what happened to the Clone-A ?

It's done when it's done - and it's worth waiting for. And don't mention that el-cheapo-device emulating a C64 (which is actually totally overpriced) if everybody knows that Chameleon is on the way - with lots more features.

Jens

alexh · 13 September 2010, 22:54

??? Never knew there was anything out. I still use my adapted Rock Lobster Joystick (cost £5 in an Argos sale).

Interesting stuff

http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm
http://www.syntiac.com/chameleon.html

Zetr0 · 14 September 2010, 01:53

@Alexh

They do make 2.5" SCSI hard disks - these are not cheap however

Of course a scsi with 32bit DMA would be prefered - even an 030 should be able to do about 6MB persec with little CPU load!

But as you mentioned sourcing compatible 5v chips would be difficult - combine that with implementing them on the PCB would increase the complexity of the Board - perhaps way to much or even force a 6 layer instead of 4 layer - which in turn can almost double the cost =(

By far a better idea would be too look at an IDE off load engine ? somthing like an intergrated chipset - but again find a 5volt tollerant component - and yet you still increase the complexity several fold - a true pitty

@Jens

its good to see the bench mark of the 030@28 - of over 6.5MIPs for 28Mhz great stuff indeed!!! I look forward to seeing the 030@50 tests

I am suspecting about 11 MIPs - a clear 2 MIP's (18% faster than a 50MHz Blizzard)

Fabie · 14 September 2010, 07:07

Jens

yes...your design seems fast
good work
this is my sysinfo result TRA1200 020/28mhz

btw, how about to insert a gfx card in the turboboard? or a scandoubler?

kamelito · 14 September 2010, 09:40

Thanks Jens, I'll wait then.
Kamel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

It's done when it's done - and it's worth waiting for. And don't mention that el-cheapo-device emulating a C64 (which is actually totally overpriced) if everybody knows that Chameleon is on the way - with lots more features.

Jens

alexh · 14 September 2010, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

They do make 2.5" SCSI hard disks - these are not cheap however

Show them to me.

Ones which are :

Still manufactured today.
Not PATA/SATA drives re-branded with third party scsi adapters
Narrow SCSI not SAS.

vroom6sri · 14 September 2010, 09:59

Please excuse the weak question but I need to know... would these cards just be a straight "plug it into the explansion slot on the bottom of the 1200" or is there additional work required? Does it need venting in some way?

alexh · 14 September 2010, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by vroom6sri

would these cards just be a straight "plug it into the explansion slot on the bottom of the 1200

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vroom6sri

Does it need venting in some way?

Possibly but nothing serious.

Zetr0 · 14 September 2010, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Show them to me.

Ones which are :

Still manufactured today.
Not PATA/SATA drives re-branded with third party scsi adapters
Narrow SCSI not SAS.

LOL okay okay... I get your point.

However they still make SCA80 2.5" SCSI drives - to buy one new would be insane - but you can pick 2nd user up for about £1.22 per GB (36.1GB = £44) - on eBay - SCA80 can be converted (very cheaply) to Narrow 50pin SCSI with a $2 adapter

However as far as I am aware they never produced a Narrow SCSI drive in 2.5" format - as you know they moved to SAS a while back (blame apple) and the SCA 80 (wide scsi) will eventually stopped...

But the truth is that its all swings and round abouts - the price you pay for a SCA80 2.5" drive you could invest in a SCSI-PATA-IDE / SCSI-SATA-IDE bridge and plumb any el-cheapo 2.5" PATA/SATA hard disk with next to no performance loss on an Amiga.

Toni Wilen · 14 September 2010, 13:04

Modern IDE DMA controller would be cheaper and faster than any old Amiga SCSI-2 controller..

Does it support ROM remapping without MMU? If yes, it should support >512K ROMs too

(Blizzard's remapping for example only support standard 512k)

alexh · 14 September 2010, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

However as far as I am aware they never produced a Narrow SCSI drive in 2.5" format

They did a long time ago. All apple laptops shipped with them. I've got several here. But they are old and you cannot buy them anymore.

Schoenfeld · 14 September 2010, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Modern IDE DMA controller would be cheaper and faster than any old Amiga SCSI-2 controller..

I'm not thinking of anything mass-storage-like on this design, as the main goal was to give enough memory to build a WHDload machine, and I'd say that a 16G CF card is way enough for such an application. I'm currently working on the thermal/mechanical concept of the A600 card, and the more I think about it, the happier I am that harddrives are *so* out of fashion these days!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Does it support ROM remapping without MMU? If yes, it should support >512K ROMs too

(Blizzard's remapping for example only support standard 512k)

I'm planning on that, as I have a descent quantity of EC030 CPUs in stock. I learned over at a1k.org that an MMU is required for certain debugging tools, but most customers don't develop/debug these days, so a "maprom" function will most probably be a good MMU replacement for 99% of the users.

A few weeks ago, a question about a 1M-Kickstart came up on a1k.org, and we found that Blizzard cards don't even show the $e0-mirror of the $f8-kickstart. However, this is where I'd expect the other half of the kickstart to be, as it's easy to build in the 42-pin sockets of the A1200. My board shows that mirror, and when I'm done with my Maprom-function, I'll surely make a second activation-bit for an $e0-maprom.

Jens

source · 14 September 2010, 17:01

If there is going to be development for the amiga would I be sble to suggest an accelerator for the A500 either an 030 or 040 plugging into the side r better yet over the 68000 socket. Have it with an ide port and clock port as well as 32 or 64 megs and designed in a way that would not conflict with the indivision ecs.

Lockon · 14 September 2010, 18:01

+1 more for that idea. Sideport is simply waiting for such a device(s).
For instance, something like GVP A530 successor.

Schoenfeld · 15 September 2010, 23:21

Porting the SD-Ram controller was faster than expected. First performance results from the A600 board! Will do memory autoconfig sometime tomorrow.

I've used a 68030 with MMU for these photos. Before that, I had an EC030 isntalled, and for the very first time, it was a "real" EC030, meaning that "CPU fastrom" was executed and MMU shown in Sysinfo as "in use", but the rom speed in bustest remained the same. I remember rumors about EC030's being re-labelled by Motorola, and in reality, they still have an MMU. Seems like this myth is busted ;-)

Jens

FOL · 16 September 2010, 00:32

Nice Jens.

Looks good,

. My A600 cant wait for this,

.

marcfrick2112 · 16 September 2010, 00:40

Jens, If you can actually get these produced, you'll make a ton of ppl happy.... and I'm pretty sure I'd buy one of the 1200 accels.

The 1200 in my bedroom is my only miggy without an accel. It's high time that machine got some love...

Pls, keep us posted....

14 September 2010, 07:07	#67
Fabie Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: France Posts: 478	Jens yes...your design seems fast good work this is my sysinfo result TRA1200 020/28mhz btw, how about to insert a gfx card in the turboboard? or a scandoubler? Attached Thumbnails

15 September 2010, 23:21	#78
Schoenfeld electricky. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: out in the wild Posts: 1,256	Porting the SD-Ram controller was faster than expected. First performance results from the A600 board! Will do memory autoconfig sometime tomorrow. I've used a 68030 with MMU for these photos. Before that, I had an EC030 isntalled, and for the very first time, it was a "real" EC030, meaning that "CPU fastrom" was executed and MMU shown in Sysinfo as "in use", but the rom speed in bustest remained the same. I remember rumors about EC030's being re-labelled by Motorola, and in reality, they still have an MMU. Seems like this myth is busted ;-) Jens Attached Thumbnails

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13 September 2010, 22:02	#63
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	Jens, I'm sorry to be a bit off topic, but minimig is there, Commodore one do have the minimig core, arcade gaming (http://www.arcaderetrogaming.com/) do already emulate the 64 and soon the 2600 and the Amiga all are based on HRM. So what happened to the Clone-A ? I know that part of it is already used in Indivision products but I'm more interested in hardware emulated Amiga at the Hardware level. Thanks Kamel

13 September 2010, 22:54	#65
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,335	??? Never knew there was anything out. I still use my adapted Rock Lobster Joystick (cost £5 in an Argos sale). Interesting stuff http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm http://www.syntiac.com/chameleon.html

14 September 2010, 01:53	#66
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Alexh They do make 2.5" SCSI hard disks - these are not cheap however Of course a scsi with 32bit DMA would be prefered - even an 030 should be able to do about 6MB persec with little CPU load! But as you mentioned sourcing compatible 5v chips would be difficult - combine that with implementing them on the PCB would increase the complexity of the Board - perhaps way to much or even force a 6 layer instead of 4 layer - which in turn can almost double the cost =( By far a better idea would be too look at an IDE off load engine ? somthing like an intergrated chipset - but again find a 5volt tollerant component - and yet you still increase the complexity several fold - a true pitty @Jens its good to see the bench mark of the 030@28 - of over 6.5MIPs for 28Mhz great stuff indeed!!! I look forward to seeing the 030@50 tests I am suspecting about 11 MIPs - a clear 2 MIP's (18% faster than a 50MHz Blizzard)

14 September 2010, 09:59	#70
vroom6sri Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Peterborough Age: 47 Posts: 841	Please excuse the weak question but I need to know... would these cards just be a straight "plug it into the explansion slot on the bottom of the 1200" or is there additional work required? Does it need venting in some way?

14 September 2010, 13:04	#73
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Modern IDE DMA controller would be cheaper and faster than any old Amiga SCSI-2 controller.. Does it support ROM remapping without MMU? If yes, it should support >512K ROMs too (Blizzard's remapping for example only support standard 512k)

14 September 2010, 17:01	#76
source Zone Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 734	If there is going to be development for the amiga would I be sble to suggest an accelerator for the A500 either an 030 or 040 plugging into the side r better yet over the 68000 socket. Have it with an ide port and clock port as well as 32 or 64 megs and designed in a way that would not conflict with the indivision ecs.

14 September 2010, 18:01	#77
Lockon Air supremacy Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rijeka Croatia Age: 49 Posts: 121	+1 more for that idea. Sideport is simply waiting for such a device(s). For instance, something like GVP A530 successor.

16 September 2010, 00:32	#79
FOL PSPUAE DEV Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales / UK Age: 45 Posts: 5,999	Nice Jens. Looks good, . My A600 cant wait for this, .

16 September 2010, 00:40	#80
marcfrick2112 Amiga Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Age: 53 Posts: 179	Jens, If you can actually get these produced, you'll make a ton of ppl happy.... and I'm pretty sure I'd buy one of the 1200 accels. The 1200 in my bedroom is my only miggy without an accel. It's high time that machine got some love... Pls, keep us posted....

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