HID2AMI - *Any* HID mouse and HID gamepad to Amiga adaptor/converter

[malko]

Just discovered your project. It's a really nice one !

One question indeed : theoretically, up to how much joystick button can your device handle (that can be used at the end by the Amiga) ?
I have seen that you speak about 4 buttons. So, is 4 the maximum ? More ?

[majinga]

The first 4 buttons are mapped as Fire1, Fire2, UP and DOWN. And they can also be remapped.
The others buttons are mapped as Fire1, Fire2, but some of them can be unused.

Is complicated, because, for example, in some PSX clones, the right analog stick act as buttons when the analog is disabled.

The first 4 buttons are generally more than enough for play.

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by malko

Just discovered your project. It's a really nice one !

One question indeed : theoretically, up to how much joystick button can your device handle (that can be used at the end by the Amiga) ?
I have seen that you speak about 4 buttons. So, is 4 the maximum ? More ?

Originally Posted by majinga

The first 4 buttons are mapped as Fire1, Fire2, UP and DOWN. And they can also be remapped.
The others buttons are mapped as Fire1, Fire2, but some of them can be unused.

Is complicated, because, for example, in some PSX clones, the right analog stick act as buttons when the analog is disabled.

The first 4 buttons are generally more than enough for play.

Generally speaking, I could map all 12 buttons we commonly find in modern pads, but I really do not see how can it could be of any use with Amiga games, as Majinga properly noted.



Besides, if you like to know more about the project, have a look at the github (https://github.com/EmberHeavyIndustries/HID2AMI), where I added a quick user guide section as well.

[malko]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

Generally speaking, I could map all 12 buttons we commonly find in modern pads, but I really do not see how can it could be of any use with Amiga games, as Majinga properly noted.

Besides, if you like to know more about the project, have a look at the github (https://github.com/EmberHeavyIndustries/HID2AMI), where I added a quick user guide section as well.

Thank you for your answers . Both of you.

I didn't know that the Amiga Joystick port was able to understand and make use of the 12 button of a joystick/pad.
OT- It makes me wonder why, thus, such implementation was not made for "fighting (SF, MK, etc.)" games conversion back in time.

[majinga]

Originally Posted by malko

I didn't know that the Amiga Joystick port was able to understand and make use of the 12 button of a joystick/pad.

It didn't. The joy port only allow 3 inputs, Fire1, Fire2, and a third input.

The adaptor can map multiple buttons to do the same action. So you will have more than one button as Fire1 etc.

[solidcore]

Cd32 however mapped more buttons with a clk dat line ! That’s an interesting one .

[danko]

Works with PSClassic usb controller?

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by danko

Works with PSClassic usb controller?

As a general rule: if the peripheral is HID protocol compliant then it works.


Unfortunately, whilst 99.99% of mice (excluding MS Intellimouse series) are HID compliant, speaking of game/joypads is another story.


A quick answer could be: "probably yes", but it must be tested to confirm (just for your curiosity: yesterday an user tested the C64 mini joystick and found it fully working ....)


The compatibility list is growing, whilst users test their peripherals and share results with me; but there are literally thousand of differente devices to test !

[nexus]

still waiting on these

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by nexus

still waiting on these

Replied on PM.
I'm out of uP at the moment, but you're top on list as soon as they arrive.


Sorry about that, but I did not expect such a large interest in my board !

[zero]

Take it easy on sampedenawa. I've been in the same situation, hobby project blows up and suddenly everyone wants one. It's hard work, especially when you are doing it as a hobby and not exactly getting rich.

Nice work sampedenawa, and thanks.

[MartinW]

Originally Posted by zero

Nice work sampedenawa, and thanks.

Definately want to second that. I was unfortunate in that I managed to pick two mice that it didn't work with because they were not fully HID complient making me initially think I had screwed up the DIY soldering. Turns out I was just extremely unlucky but one of them now works in a subsequent update so realistically the project (and Sampedenawa) cannot be faulted.

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by zero

Take it easy on sampedenawa. I've been in the same situation, hobby project blows up and suddenly everyone wants one. It's hard work, especially when you are doing it as a hobby and not exactly getting rich.

Nice work sampedenawa, and thanks.

Originally Posted by MartinW

Definately want to second that. I was unfortunate in that I managed to pick two mice that it didn't work with because they were not fully HID complient making me initially think I had screwed up the DIY soldering. Turns out I was just extremely unlucky but one of them now works in a subsequent update so realistically the project (and Sampedenawa) cannot be faulted.

Thank you both for your appreciation !


Martin, I just sent you minutes ago a further updated version, coming from the dump you sent me. Let me know if it fixes your other mouse, so you can have both of them working now.


For the curious ones: "problem" with recent Logitech mice is that they declare themselves as multiple interface devices, the first one is a keyboard (!), then a Mouse. Mousewheel events and midle button events are encoded as couple of keystrokes (!!), and so on....

[MartinW]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

For the curious ones: "problem" with recent Logitech mice is that they declare themselves as multiple interface devices, the first one is a keyboard (!), then a Mouse. Mousewheel events and midle button events are encoded as couple of keystrokes (!!), and so on....

OK, this isn't a big surprise to me now I think of it. I did not appreciate until fairly recently that the wireless receivers that Logitech ship will often work with a whole series of their devices, even though there is nothing with the device you buy to say that so it does not surprise me that it reports as a keyboard as well - sorry!



Thinking about it, I have another logitech "Keyboard and Mouse" pair somewhere that both use a single dongle. It's different again however. I don't know where it is and I'm not really interested in getting that one working although of course I can if you really want to add yet another device to the list?


Maybe I'll try and find it. It might even just work when the other one does.

[sampedenawa]

For those interested: I just released fw 1.8.0 with some fancy upgrades, among the others:


- Support for Dual Shock 4 PS4 original controllers; BEWARE !! Be absolutely sure to FULLY charge the DS4 internal battery BEFORE connecting it to you Amiga, or the recharge current will flow through Amiga's joyport !
- Support for 3rd party PS3 and PS4 compatible controllers;
- Improved support for Logitech Wireless and gaming mice (still a bit buggy on some models, thou)


Detailed compatibility list is on github.

[zero]

Oh, that made me think... The joystick port is only rated for 50mA, where as USB is 500mA. My solution was to have a second USB port on the device that lets you connect a battery (the kind used to charge your phone).

How did you solve this? Just support USB devices up to 50mA?

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by zero

Oh, that made me think... The joystick port is only rated for 50mA, where as USB is 500mA. My solution was to have a second USB port on the device that lets you connect a battery (the kind used to charge your phone).

How did you solve this? Just support USB devices up to 50mA?

In reality, current limiting resistors on joy/mouse port of A500/600/1200 are 1/2 Watt, and in A4000 there is no such a resistor (pin 7 is tied directly to +5V), so the "nominal" current limit is 100mA.



As a pragmatic rule of thumb, tested with several hours of debugging, there isn't any issue if connecting devices up to rough 120mA (not continuous).


This includes all joypads I have tested (average 70-80mA) and mice (100-110 mA not continuous).


If one wanted to connect higher power-demanding peripherals, it is unavoidable to think to some external supply, like you are suggesting.


My opinion is that it is out of the scope of the adapter: there is no point in connecting a "6-axis 24-buttons double-sterero-earthquake-rumble" pad in order to play 2-buttons 8-directions games.

[zero]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

In reality, current limiting resistors on joy/mouse port of A500/600/1200 are 1/2 Watt, and in A4000 there is no such a resistor (pin 7 is tied directly to +5V), so the "nominal" current limit is 100mA.

As a pragmatic rule of thumb, tested with several hours of debugging, there isn't any issue if connecting devices up to rough 120mA (not continuous).

This includes all joypads I have tested (average 70-80mA) and mice (100-110 mA not continuous).

Thanks, some very useful research there. I was thinking of just using a Schottkey diode so that you could use either direct or external power, but was worried about potentially high loads on the A4k 5V lin.

Actually kinda crazy that they didn't limit it on the more expensive machine. Imagine corrupting your HDD because of a fault with your mouse!

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by zero

Thanks, some very useful research there. I was thinking of just using a Schottkey diode so that you could use either direct or external power, but was worried about potentially high loads on the A4k 5V lin.

Actually kinda crazy that they didn't limit it on the more expensive machine. Imagine corrupting your HDD because of a fault with your mouse!

On A4000 they actually only put a fuse, shared between the two db9 ports.


So, they in some way protected it.

[zero]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

On A4000 they actually only put a fuse, shared between the two db9 ports.

Hmm, looks like a non-resettable polyfuse. Not ideal!