C64 GS troubles

Tony Landais · 17 April 2003, 19:47

I have a C64 GS with several trouble.
The first and probably the most simple is I haven't sound.
Is it a connection trouble or the SID. Is the computer can still works with a bad SID?
How to identify a SID on the mother board (see pic)?
The second problem come from the screen, I have (in front end and in some game screen) some small lines that move on the screen... see picture.
Is anybody can help to identify the problem?

Overdoc · 17 April 2003, 23:18

If the SID is bad the computer should still work. It is said that a C64 can even work without a SID, and I have also tried this sometimes and it worked ok, but I am not 100% sure if it does good to the machine ?

Anyway, the SID has number '8580'.
Also, the screen probem might be a bad VIC grafix chip. It has number 8565.

When looking for spare SIDs and VICs have in mind that there exist different types of SIDs and VICs, which are not interchangeable without modifications ! Other SIDs have numbers 6581 or 6582. The 6582 you can use in the GS, as well as the 8580 ofcourse

For VIC try to find a 8565, and not a 6569 !!

Also, have you connected the GS to a TV via RF, or to a monitor via video port ?

Also check the modulator ! There should be a small switch on the outside ( there is written H & L on the outside of the case ). Do you get sound when you change this switch ?

Tony Landais · 17 April 2003, 23:23

Thank you very much for all that details

There is a switch for the RF output (it's inside, what a strange machine) and yes I can hear like when you turn on a HIFI machine but no sound from SID.

I ll let you know

Tony Landais · 17 April 2003, 23:37

Well I just opened it and here are the components.

SID:
8580 R5
3190 25

VIC:
8563 R2
3090 22

The SID is the one we can find in the C128 and C128 D not C64

about the VIC, is there a C64 VIC compatible or do I need a C128 for spare?

Lucky me they are on socket, I don't need to weld :P

Tony Landais · 18 April 2003, 00:16

I have a spare C64 with a SID 6581
and a VIC 6510

If I try what will happened???

Shadowfire · 18 April 2003, 00:18

the 6510 is not the VIC chip, it's the CPU, don't try putting that in the VIC socket!

Tony Landais · 18 April 2003, 00:30

ooops
so what is the vic for C64 ?

Tony Landais · 18 April 2003, 01:10

I put the SID 8580 R5 in a C64 and it works fine...
wired.

Overdoc · 18 April 2003, 11:36

Well, I don't know about 8563, but I think 6565 should be compatible. At least my GS has a 6565 and also all C64-C I have seen have had a 6565. Btw, the C64-C board is exactly the same as the one in the GS ( apart from some connectors missing in the GS ).

The switch for RF should be accessible from the outside. On my GS it is marked 'H L' on the backside of the case. It should be in L position for PAL.

Also, have you hooked the GS to a monitor via video-out port, or do you use it via RF-out on a TV ? Because when you live in France you have probably a Secam TV and won't get any good pitcure because all GS are PAL !!

Tony Landais · 23 April 2003, 13:05

Here is the reply I received by mail from the very clever Nicolas

I had a look at the pictures, and it might be the video chip or the
character ROM. If you have another C64, you can try to put the video chip into the other machine and see if it works there.

If you have really bad luck, the big 68pin chip is bad. I think
they're still available somewhere, but replacing them is a lot of
work.

The character chip is the 2nd chip from the left (24pin), don't remember the
number.
The video chip should be labeled 8565 (PAL), or 8562 for the NTSC version.
Overdoc confused it with the 6569 (old chip) and created a 6565 it seems

Some people say you can test the 8565 in a machine that normally has a 6569, but I never tried it.
A 6569 will not work in the GS, though, because one voltage is missing.

Overdoc · 23 April 2003, 23:53

Yeah, I'm a C64 chip creator - hehe

Sure, I meant the 8565. But at least I got the numbers right in my first reply in this thread

Report back here when you tried the C64GS 8565 in a C64-C. It is always socketed, so no problem

Tony Landais · 23 April 2003, 23:57

I ll do this week end

17 April 2003, 19:47	#1
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	C64 GS troubles I have a C64 GS with several trouble. The first and probably the most simple is I haven't sound. Is it a connection trouble or the SID. Is the computer can still works with a bad SID? How to identify a SID on the mother board (see pic)? The second problem come from the screen, I have (in front end and in some game screen) some small lines that move on the screen... see picture. Is anybody can help to identify the problem? Attached Thumbnails

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17 April 2003, 23:18	#2
Overdoc Commodore Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austria Age: 53 Posts: 944	If the SID is bad the computer should still work. It is said that a C64 can even work without a SID, and I have also tried this sometimes and it worked ok, but I am not 100% sure if it does good to the machine ? Anyway, the SID has number '8580'. Also, the screen probem might be a bad VIC grafix chip. It has number 8565. When looking for spare SIDs and VICs have in mind that there exist different types of SIDs and VICs, which are not interchangeable without modifications ! Other SIDs have numbers 6581 or 6582. The 6582 you can use in the GS, as well as the 8580 ofcourse For VIC try to find a 8565, and not a 6569 !! Also, have you connected the GS to a TV via RF, or to a monitor via video port ? Also check the modulator ! There should be a small switch on the outside ( there is written H & L on the outside of the case ). Do you get sound when you change this switch ?

17 April 2003, 23:23	#3
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	Thank you very much for all that details There is a switch for the RF output (it's inside, what a strange machine) and yes I can hear like when you turn on a HIFI machine but no sound from SID. I ll let you know

17 April 2003, 23:37	#4
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	Well I just opened it and here are the components. SID: 8580 R5 3190 25 VIC: 8563 R2 3090 22 The SID is the one we can find in the C128 and C128 D not C64 about the VIC, is there a C64 VIC compatible or do I need a C128 for spare? Lucky me they are on socket, I don't need to weld :P

18 April 2003, 00:16	#5
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	I have a spare C64 with a SID 6581 and a VIC 6510 If I try what will happened???

18 April 2003, 00:18	#6
Shadowfire Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Connecticut USA Posts: 617	the 6510 is not the VIC chip, it's the CPU, don't try putting that in the VIC socket!

18 April 2003, 00:30	#7
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	ooops so what is the vic for C64 ?

18 April 2003, 01:10	#8
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	I put the SID 8580 R5 in a C64 and it works fine... wired.

18 April 2003, 11:36	#9
Overdoc Commodore Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austria Age: 53 Posts: 944	Well, I don't know about 8563, but I think 6565 should be compatible. At least my GS has a 6565 and also all C64-C I have seen have had a 6565. Btw, the C64-C board is exactly the same as the one in the GS ( apart from some connectors missing in the GS ). The switch for RF should be accessible from the outside. On my GS it is marked 'H L' on the backside of the case. It should be in L position for PAL. Also, have you hooked the GS to a monitor via video-out port, or do you use it via RF-out on a TV ? Because when you live in France you have probably a Secam TV and won't get any good pitcure because all GS are PAL !!

23 April 2003, 13:05	#10
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	Here is the reply I received by mail from the very clever Nicolas I had a look at the pictures, and it might be the video chip or the character ROM. If you have another C64, you can try to put the video chip into the other machine and see if it works there. If you have really bad luck, the big 68pin chip is bad. I think they're still available somewhere, but replacing them is a lot of work. The character chip is the 2nd chip from the left (24pin), don't remember the number. The video chip should be labeled 8565 (PAL), or 8562 for the NTSC version. Overdoc confused it with the 6569 (old chip) and created a 6565 it seems Some people say you can test the 8565 in a machine that normally has a 6569, but I never tried it. A 6569 will not work in the GS, though, because one voltage is missing.

23 April 2003, 23:53	#11
Overdoc Commodore Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austria Age: 53 Posts: 944	Yeah, I'm a C64 chip creator - hehe Sure, I meant the 8565. But at least I got the numbers right in my first reply in this thread Report back here when you tried the C64GS 8565 in a C64-C. It is always socketed, so no problem

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23 April 2003, 23:57	#12
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	I ll do this week end