which PAL games deserve to be played at 60Hz?

[zodiac]

I always preferred Shanghai in NTSC versus PAL. That 10Hz makes a big difference when selecting tiles!

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by zipper

..and especially on 060 - it flies. Probably not tied to VBlank...

ill give it a go thanks

Originally Posted by rare_j

Prince of Persia 60hz version is much better, the graphics are the correct aspect ratio.
Zeewolf is better in 60hz (as well as bigger cpu/fastram), faster and without the border.

thanks
im trying Prince of Persia adf on WinUAE, but seems no gain in speed? even a bit slower if i must be honest
real hardware difference?

[Elmario]

Originally Posted by kremiso

the question is all in the title

just wondering if you have encountered some Amiga games that worth a re-play at 60Hz too

I'm wondering how exacty you define 'at 60Hz', because I see two variants there:
1. You could the NTSC version of a game instead of the PAL version, which will give you just 60Hz.

2. You could play the PAL version but set thePAL Amiga to 60Hz using the Boot menu or some bootloader tool/freezer, which will not only give you 60Hz but also a speed increase.


I always did the later one with games that suffered from too low speed and fps, like Thunderhawk, Epic, Super Hang On, Grand Prix Circuit, basically all vector graphics based game swher it worked, and so on.

[Snoopy1234]

Arkanoid is an NTSC 60hz game at it's best but there is also a scene 50Hz PAL modded version for such machnes.

[Predseda]

Gunship 2000. Much better experience, I always switched my A1200 to NTSC before starting this game. And it only has music in the menu, so I can tolerate it plays faster.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Elmario

I'm wondering how exacty you define 'at 60Hz', because I see two variants there:
1. You could the NTSC version of a game instead of the PAL version, which will give you just 60Hz.

2. You could play the PAL version but set thePAL Amiga to 60Hz using the Boot menu or some bootloader tool/freezer, which will not only give you 60Hz but also a speed increase.

point 2, PAL games

[kremiso]

i suppose it's not possible to 'fix' the games that doesn't work when runned at 60Hz?
i would badly see how Ruff'n'Tumble will perform

[kremiso]

crap result testing Top Gear 2 here;
i was wondering a little smoother scrolling compared to the not great PAL one

and the game seems to run even worse instead

a bad programmed game

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by kremiso

crap result testing Top Gear 2 here;
i was wondering a little smoother scrolling compared to the not great PAL one

and the game seems to run even worse instead

a bad programmed game

The OCS version is actually pretty smooth on 68030+
The AGA version is slow on any CPU, even though the in-game graphics looks pretty much the same.

[CCCP alert]

If the game engine isn't running at 25/50fps with zero frame drops on a PAL machine then there probably isn't much point running it on PAL60 or NTSC because the issue is lack of chipset/CPU time to actually do anything with the extra 20% update to the CRT gun.

Some games just need a ground up rewrite of the core game engine.

I have run Shadow of the Beast on an NTSC Amiga and it worked, bit of the screen missing of course. I can't remember if it was zero frame drops though, the PAL version is silky smooth and consistent like an arcade game, which is important.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by CCCP alert

...I have run Shadow of the Beast on an NTSC Amiga and it worked, bit of the screen missing of course. I can't remember if it was zero frame drops though, the PAL version is silky smooth and consistent like an arcade game, which is important.

runned at 60Hz is smoother but even more harder imo;
the moving enemies become faster than the slow punch animation, you see the enemy and press the fire button, but is too late, one less hitpoint

[kremiso]

Ruff n Tumble The One demo

it doesn't work at 60Hz as the final release, the screen stays black, BUT you can hear the music playing faster and all the rest seems working (sfx, jumping, shooting)

blind mode

[rare_j]

Originally Posted by kremiso

im trying Prince of Persia adf on WinUAE, but seems no gain in speed? even a bit slower if i must be honest
real hardware difference?

Sorry I meant the proper NTSC version of Prince of Persia. It runs in the correct aspect ratio with no borders. I don't think it's any faster. You still need a better cpu/fastram to get a decent speed with it.

[kremiso]

Prophecy 1 - the viking child is def another one

almost another game, to re-discover

[Photon]

Suggestion: AmigaLive games list? (Note: Some normally singleplayer games are in the multiplayer list). It's quite different to "the famous ones in PAL land" or whatever, i.e. full framerate, fullscreen sometimes overscan, lots of action on the screen including full use of the Blitter.

Through it, I've discovered well mostly games from 1992 on, PD and party/multiplayer games. And AmigaLive requires emu. It just seems to me the list comes from a US compatible perspective.

Apart from that, then on ECS/AGA WHDLoad machines, with the exception of the games that use the hardware fully which could get stagger regardless of CPU, there are proper NTSC WHDLoad slaves which switch modes, and that ofc works in 60Hz on any CRT. In PAL land, we mostly don't know of the wider vertical scanline spacing unless we have an arcade cabinet. But this rids the infamous NTSC-compatible big black border at the bottom that PAL-land has seen a lot. Yes, a lot. #$%^&*( etc whatever.

I hadn't thought of it, but I might include some NTSC slaves e.g. of Graftgold/Bitmap Bros or other half-framerate games. Especially games with inertia could feel more responsive, even if the game runs faster and so could be more challenging (same as for full framerate games in the faster 60Hz).

And ofc it depends on the game type. All the way from bullet-hell down to card game or adventure/build sim. @Zodiac Has to be action-ey to apply, really.

Vector games are poorly programmed and don't take advantage of the hardware, with few exceptions. Fast or slow Amiga, the average framerate should be the same, correctly or poorly programmed, just divided by the Hz of choice. Obviously the "action" category still applies: e.g. if you could get a vector game above 30Hz most of the time, it could be less unsmooth in 30Hz than 25.

For all games is it true that if NTSC is chosen to fill the screen, it will stretch the graphics and any perspective. For US releases like Zany Golf the familiar squashed gfx would now be appropriate, and maybe it would be more responsive if poorly programmed. Obviously the A1000 and up can do isometric minigolf 50FPS/50Hz, but this is the first time I thought there might be an NTSC slave that unsquashes the gfx on my A500/ACA500Plus and could make it slightly less horribly slow. Cheers for thread

[stx2199]

the game BC kid is the best game to play in NTSC mode

large screen + much more fluid

ie in the 1 disk crack by wanted team you can select the game to boot in ntsc

[van_dammesque]

ABC World Wide Sports Boxing, fullscreen too.

[h0ffman]

Both Metal Gear and Knightmare have built in 60hz ECS switchers. This was added because the original games are actually Japanese MSX titles where they would run at 60hz.

[lordofchaos]

Fury of the furries has a pal/NTSC selection at the start. Runs very nicely at 60hz and fills out the screen to fit display better.

[SquawkBox]

Dragon Strike, A.M.C. - Astro Marine Corps, 944 Turbo Cup and Strider, here are a few more! I use Degrader on my 1 MB A500 to boot in NTSC / 60 Hz mode.

Btw I am not sure one can expect the exact same results in emulation. I mean, most titles mentioned here may get the 10 Hz or so speed bump and all when played in NTSC mode on actual hardware, but not necessarily each and everyone of them.

We had that discussion in PM with kremiso a while ago, and not everything felt any smoother during my tests (e.q. Impossible Mission II). So have fun switching for every game you might think of but have in mind there might be a bias if you get there purely in emulation.