Indivision ECS Scrolling?

[Tempest 2084]

Does anyone know if the Indivision ECS has the same scrolling issues as the AGA Mk2 version?

[JLPedro]

Indy ECS can be set to 50hz screen, so in a CRT or an LCD that supports 50hz, you get a perfect scrool just like on a 1084s monitor .

[trixster]

With certain monitors the aga mk2 can achieve 50hz smooth scrolling too.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by JLPedro

Indy ECS can be set to 50hz screen, so in a CRT or an LCD that supports 50hz, you get a perfect scrool just like on a 1084s monitor .

The reason I ask is that I have my Amiga 3000 hooked up to my CRT through ts native monitor port (with the Amber doubler) and when I choose any of the PAL resolutions I get some flicker that starts to hurt the eyes after a bit. I used this same monitor with my 2000 and the Indivision ECS and never saw that flicker in PAL modes, but I also never tested it with scrolling games (just static screened RPGs). So before I go through the trouble of putting the Indivision ECS in my 3000 I wanted to make sure that it would solve my issue and not cause new ones.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

The reason I ask is that I have my Amiga 3000 hooked up to my CRT through ts native monitor port (with the Amber doubler) and when I choose any of the PAL resolutions I get some flicker that starts to hurt the eyes after a bit. I used this same monitor with my 2000 and the Indivision ECS and never saw that flicker in PAL modes, but I also never tested it with scrolling games (just static screened RPGs). So before I go through the trouble of putting the Indivision ECS in my 3000 I wanted to make sure that it would solve my issue and not cause new ones.

There is a good chance this is the 50Hz refresh rate causing flicker, in which case the Indivision (wether ECS or AGA) can't fix this unless you accept non-smooth scrolling as a payoff.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by roondar

There is a good chance this is the 50Hz refresh rate causing flicker, in which case the Indivision (wether ECS or AGA) can't fix this unless you accept non-smooth scrolling as a payoff.

That's what I was afraid of. I suppose I can try another monitor and see if that helps. Otherwise I'll just stick with the 3000's doubler.

So the Indivision adjusts the refresh rate to something that doesn't flicker on the monitor, but this affects the scrolling in games? Has anyone done research to see how bad effect is?

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

That's what I was afraid of. I suppose I can try another monitor and see if that helps. Otherwise I'll just stick with the 3000's doubler.

So the Indivision adjusts the refresh rate to something that doesn't flicker on the monitor, but this affects the scrolling in games? Has anyone done research to see how bad effect is?

The Indivision ECS and AGA both default to a refresh rate of 60Hz instead of 50Hz. This usually reduces flicker quite a lot.

However, to convert 50 to 60Hz, you need to add duplicate frames for 20% of the frames. There are many ways this can be done, but the simplest is to just add one duplicate frame every 5 frames. Another way I've seen happen is to add a bunch of duplicate frames at the end of 50 displayed frames.

Both cause visible judder. How much this bothers you is a personal preference. I find these conversions really, really jarring. Others not so much.

[Tempest 2084]

Thanks for the explanation, I think I understand now.

I suppose I can put the Indivision board in my system and try it out. If I run into a game where the scrolling bothers me I can switch over to the built in doubler. Is there any danger in hot swapping the video port? Do I need turn the Amiga off first?

[roondar]

I'd say best not to risk it with hardware this old. It usually works without problems, but you never know (plus the manual always said you shouldn't ) and repairs/replacements are more expensive than I'd like.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by roondar

I'd say best not to risk it with hardware this old. It usually works without problems, but you never know (plus the manual always said you shouldn't ) and repairs/replacements are more expensive than I'd like.

You're probably right. I was going to use a VGA switch box to switch between the two on the fly.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

You're probably right. I was going to use a VGA switch box to switch between the two on the fly.

With a VGA switch box, I think the risk is low of frying anything. The switch box will keep the grounds connected at all times so there won't be any high voltage potentials.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by demolition

With a VGA switch box, I think the risk is low of frying anything. The switch box will keep the grounds connected at all times so there won't be any high voltage potentials.

I might try that then.

Will the output from the A3000's Amber chip work at the same time as the Indivision?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

I might try that then.

Will the output from the A3000's Amber chip work at the same time as the Indivision?

I don't see why not. The Indivision doesn't cut any existing signals, so the original RGB signals are still present.

[alexh]

Depending on what you want to watch.... try WHDload with tool type NTSC it will switch to 60hz and eliminate some flicker. Side effect is part of the screen may be not visible if the game / demo didn't have borders and music may play back faster. Not perfect but it is free.

Also the AMBER has a pot (little screw by the VGA) you can use to tune flicker. Don't adjust it too far and mark where it was in case you make it worse

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by alexh

Also the AMBER has a pot (little screw by the VGA) you can use to tune flicker. Don't adjust it too far and mark where it was in case you make it worse

The flicker is only in PAL modes though. Would this break NTSC modes if I adjusted it?