15 April 2015, 17:45 | #81 |
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An readily-available "escrow" service for source-code would be interesting. I know this happens with corporate contracts, but an easy-to-use public version might be nice.
The source would remain closed until certain circumstances happen, when it would be released automatically under a chosen open-source license. The death of the author is the obvious one, but (less morbidly) the developer could say "if I don't update the code in 10 years..." or "if I don't log in and hit the "Renew" button within 5 years..." then open the code under GPL. The criteria could be defined by the author themselves. They could remove the code from the service later, but that's their decision. The thing is that they're not transferring any ownership or rights at that stage. It would mean that there's no need to persuade a disinterested author to hunt through their attic looking for a disk, assuming they can be persuaded to put their code on there while they're still actively developing. Does such a thing exist already? Would any devs reluctant to open their code sign up to such a service? Just a thought... Chris |
15 April 2015, 22:34 | #82 | |||||
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http://sourceforge.net/p/dopus5allam...ode/HEAD/tree/ Quote:
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Last edited by TCD; 16 April 2015 at 06:08. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. |
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16 April 2015, 16:01 | #83 | ||
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Suppport for long file names and big file sizes and partitions, popup menus, internal support for handling dozens of archive types or file crunchers, support for new icon formats, new internal commands, literally hundreds of optimisations and important fixes... There are a lot of examples for source releases that didn't have much (if any) effect on the actual application. But DOpus certainly isn't such an example, it's a success story. Quote:
1. somebody might want to port it to another platform. Not very likely for GUI based apps - but I could really use a decent AmigaGuide -> HTML converter on Linux, for example. And there's plenty of Amiga games out there which are tremendous fun but would benefit a lot from not being tied to proprietary ROMs and an emulator that requires intimate knowledge of a 30 year old computer platform. Plus smoother integration with the host platform (proper task names/icons on your desktop, standard shortcuts for going fullscreen, location of save games...) or actual improvements to the gameplay... 2. sources for word processors, spreadsheet and similar business applications could be useful for people trying to reverse engineer their document formats, e.g. because they want to write an import filter for the libraries of the document liberation project. 3. historical research. the sources for Photoshop 1.0, 8 bit MS Basic and earlier DOS versions have been made available in the last few years. They're certainly not useful for anything these days, but there are people interested in studying old code. |
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17 April 2015, 03:07 | #84 |
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Deluxe Paint V sources wold be nice to have.
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17 April 2015, 10:13 | #85 |
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Hewitson was banned??
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17 April 2015, 18:29 | #86 |
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"Ami" saw what we were doing here, and registered just to supply some additions to my list of open source games. Thanks a lot!
Here are his additions, some very nice 8 bit remakes, some unfinished game projects somebody might want to take over, plus the polish, formerly commercial FPS "Ubek": Code:
Abbo 2001 (E) (?) Source AmigaNitzu 2013 (C) (?) Source AntiISDA Warrior 2004 (C) (?) Source AntiISDA Warrior II 2005 (C) (?) Source BlitzBros ? (BB2) (?) Source Cave ? (ASM) (?) Source Crazy8's 1999 (BB2) (?) Source CrazyCrane 2013 (C) (?) Source DungeonEx 1995 (BB2) (Custom) Source GalagaWars 1999 (BB2) (?) Source MiniArcanoid 1998 (ASM) (PD) Source MissCmd 2006 (C) (?) Source Nuclear Assault 1999 (BB2) (Custom) Source Robbo ? (ASM) (?) Source SnakePit 1988 (C) (Custom) Source Solo Flight ? (ASM) (?) Source Ubek 1995 (C) (?) (Info) Source UnivConq 1997 (E) (Custom) Source Last edited by Korodny; 21 April 2015 at 16:07. |
20 April 2015, 13:47 | #87 |
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Not having a lot of luck getting people to consider opening their software.
It really seems like the majority of the people in this community are against the idea, for reasons that are either personal or historical. I would like to advocate it further, but maybe this is the wrong way to go about it. Last edited by wXR; 20 April 2015 at 18:18. |
20 April 2015, 13:50 | #88 |
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edited
Last edited by kipper2k; 20 April 2015 at 19:11. |
20 April 2015, 13:59 | #89 |
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Not at all. A bit frustrated about the response, perhaps, and looking for some guidance as to how to proceed in order to further advocate this (or not, as the case may be). My view is that not making the source available causes more harm than good. Therefore I would like to at least try and paint the picture of why everyone is better off this way.
Anyway, I posted those links here for guidance -- to ask, how to answer to these kinds of responses -- not to shame anyone. Sorry if it appeared that way. |
20 April 2015, 14:24 | #90 |
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People may not want to open source things due to the extra work and potential problems it can generate.
Just opening something up will in many cases require cleaning of a codebase intended for one person only (the author), probably require writing support documentation etc. Getting ones name associated with sloppy code (or what is perceived as sloppy code) may cause problems professionally, getting ones name associated with some code release _will_ in most cases generate extra mails and/or harassment* even if the code is released as is. Don't forget the GPL/BSD/whatever licence fanatics that will harass people to change the licence to their preferences even if they don't care of the actual code or can't even code... For a project in development there will be a greater workload in keeping the code up to date, documented etc. A coder can be very productive, two coders on the same project decreases productivity and having several coders can decrease output greatly. (* yes entitled pseduo-psychopaths are everywhere - see the "greater internet dickwad theory") Edit: I actually have had an idea of a "fork-off" licence that perhaps will be realized one day, essentially a PD license with a "do what you want but don't bother me, fork the codebase to enhance it" philosophy. Last edited by Megol; 20 April 2015 at 14:33. |
20 April 2015, 15:12 | #91 |
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I get your point, although I have been running a moderately popular open source project for iOS for a few years via GitHub, and it hasn't been as dramatic as you describe, by a long shot. Perhaps that says something about the culture of GitHub? Still, it's hard to imagine an Amiga project being significantly more heavy on the maintainer... And I seriously doubt that sloppy code in that case would cause problems professionally.
As for "fork off", it seems implied to me. If the author doesn't answer, and the license is appropriate, they already know what they can do. |
20 April 2015, 16:01 | #92 | |
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I think you should remove those links again. If you want guidance, use examples of responses you got without mentioning names. There's not much you can do anyway, other than politely ask and maybe point out that others did the same already and what their experience turned out to be. You simply have to accept that people in the Amiga community aren't very fond of the idea of "sharing code" - I've seen people complain about about the "GPL/BSD lunatics" for decades - people that used BSD licensed TCP stacks, font libraries and JPEG decoders and compiled their code using gcc. I guess that kind of mindset is shaped by growing up in a home computer/cracking scene environment and watching incompetent idiots fight about the Amiga remnants for ages. The only thing you can do is create some positive vibe that might entice others to join in on the 'fun'. I always wanted to do a website that collects information about open source Amiga games, and tracks/celebrates whatever things are done with said code. |
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20 April 2015, 18:20 | #93 | |
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EDIT: About the "open source Amiga" site. That's quite a positive idea, and it might do the trick to get people interested. I guess we could start in the most obvious way, using GitHub pages ("amiga.github.io" ?) or even just use a GitHub wiki page to assemble the data in the rawest possible form. Need to catch a train now but I'll think on it. If you guys have any ideas, please drop them in here. Last edited by wXR; 20 April 2015 at 18:25. |
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20 April 2015, 18:55 | #94 |
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Cave, Robbo, Solo Flight have status PD. Few years ago I emailed with Korin (author ) and he said that status is Public Domain for Cave, Robbo, Solo Flight.
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21 April 2015, 02:10 | #95 | ||
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21 April 2015, 03:47 | #96 | |
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Surely it is not worth more than a few million dollars at this point. |
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21 April 2015, 07:26 | #97 |
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Less than that, surely. But I would be much more interested in OS3.9 source code than 4.1...
I was talking more about independent developers rather than Hyperion, eg. the piechart.gadget developer... |
21 April 2015, 10:53 | #98 | |
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Who actually owns the rights to those classic versions now? Imagine how great that would be, to have the whole of the Amiga OS line available for collaborative development by enthusiasts on GitHub... |
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21 April 2015, 16:13 | #99 | |||
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A lot. But the real problem is not the money that would be required, it's the legal mess. Hyperion has distribution rights, but they don't own the sources - these are owned by Cloanto (for the 3.1 stuff) and the respective authors (for all the improvements since 3.1) - most of which are more or less at war with Hyperion. Quote:
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21 April 2015, 17:17 | #100 | |
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But now that I read your license, we're hitting the old "open source" vs. "free/libre software" debate. I'm more of a "free software" guy, so your "open source freeware" license pretty much scares me The following is meant as constructive criticism, I'm glad those sources are easily available (always wanted to have a closer look at the Interton console, the only proper game console ever developed in Germany). You are using a custom license which doesn't fit the "free software" definition of either the FSF or the DFSG, which severely impacts the files' distribution in the Linux crowd: even if there were Linux ports, they wouldn't be distributed by the actual OS vendors, people would have to hunt them down themselves - which is a very rare thing to do on Linux. It also makes it completely impossible to merge your code with other (free) code - think about joystick or network support on Windows/OS X/Linux, for example. Your code could theoretically still be adapted to SDL (since that is LGPL), which makes creating and maintaining lots of ports much easier (including automatic joystick/joypad support, which your emulator wouldn't have on WINE right now) - but since it's not free software, there's a lot less interest from the SDL crowd. Out of the nine conditions in your custom license, five are pretty much covered by the GPL, one ("no logic bombs, spyware, DRM...") is more or less guaranteed by the GPL and one ("modified versions must be clearly marked as such") can easily be covered by trademark rights instead of copyrights - you own the "Arcadia" trademark, so you can decide who can use it and in what way. That leaves the following two clauses: Code:
* you are not allowed to sell it, or modified versions of it, without consent (however, magazine covermounting is permitted); * you are not allowed to claim you wrote this software, or to remove or alter the existing credits (though you may append to them as appropriate); I think your releases are a perfect example of why choosing a custom license has the potential to do more harm than good. They're well maintained, and judging from my experience of playing "Africe" a few times after its initial release, quite polished too. But despite them being open source, I can't use them because actually porting a game to Linux is more than I'm capable of and nobody else is going to bother due to the license. |
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