Ambermoon

[alexh]

Originally Posted by macce2

I managed to do a proper hd install of Ambermoon;
by using the app UnitMount (v1.17 English ADFs). The game starts fine (no save game exist !), but crashes immediately Just before (first) battle
sequence is about to begin (black screen, reset).

I've not tried v1.17 (or indeed anything since v1.14 when Pyradcor went to the single executable) but I will make time to on Monday night.

Hexxae said that he had higher stability using WHDload. I've no idea how that can be, it's rock stable on 040 without KS3.1+OS3.1+FFS, but I don't have an 060 Amiga set up and certainly never use extreme AmigaOS patching.

Try the mount technique to install using v1.17 using WHDload slave.

[macce2]

I already made a WHDload install of Ambermoon; using those v1.17 English ADF files
directly, with UnitMount.
With default settings (PRELOAD; stack 10240 !?) the game loads to the Thalion Fantasy intro screen; then quits to the OS (after mouse click).
If I remember the WHDload error message correctly; it was of "unsupported version".
I have a feeling that I'd better install & try v1.13 next..

[alexh]

Possibly it is hard coded in WHDload slave to only allow v1.16?

The Amiga "exe" didn't change between v1.16 and v1.17 only the game files so I thought it would have worked.

[macce2]

I could try the WHDload installation again with v1.16 ADFs.


UPDATE:

Sorry, it seems I currently can't transfer the files to my Amiga system,
which doesn't have any network option.
Generally, I'd have to burn some cd-r:s on my old PC to transfer larger amounts of data,
but could use some dd floppies for smaller files.
Maybe I'd better wait for the next upcoming version of Ambermoon (Advanced),
before sacrificing my last empty cd-r disc .

I had already burnt v.117 Ambermoon to a disc, but I had totally
missed the versions 1.14; 11.5 and 11.6.

So maybe theres some other classic Amiga 060 users there, who could
test the WHDload installation of Ambermoon v1.16 !?

But I found something interesting:

Ambermoon v1.13 English does seem to work ok on my setup...
so far.

UPDATE:

Sorry folks; v1.13 stopped working.
Now the Ambermoon Advanced
is partly working.
However, It doesn't run every time I try to run it.
And there's the graphics glitches in some battle screens.

Most of the problems I have encountered on my classic
Amiga 060 setup with Ambermoon seem to be related to save
games; or launching the game (main.exe/-s !?).
Part of the main problem may be memory related !?
(Occasional error messages telling you that the systems running out of memory;
even if you have almost 300 mb total free ?!)

I really hope that the most severe 060 issues of Ambermoon
& Advanced will be fixed soon.


UPDATE:

Yeah, I suspect some filesystem related to be the cause for part of
my problems.
I modified my PFS configuration and it seems I'm (mostly) able to run
Ambermoon Advanced.
Now the battle sequences do seem to start without freezing
the system; but occasionally, there's some graphics corruption
on the battle animations.
However, I'm not not the only one who has reported those problems.

[macce2]

Please, let me introduce some suggestions for improving the
already improved game Ambermoon Advanced even more:

For example; I think it would be cool, if the bandit(-s) with broken daggers
could appear accordingly on battle animations; so they could be
drawn using bare fists or something like that !?

Generally, I have some similar kind of suggestions for improving the game
experience a bit; but do agree that those are Minor "issues" and
maybe couldn't be made without plenty of work;
and naturally, they would consume some more memory / disk space etc.

Other small suggestion; regarding the 2D sections of the game:

When you want to talk with someone, I think it would be more
realistic, if the possible movement area of the talking Icon (with lips/mouth);
could be moved more freely (=a little "further").
For example, when you visit a house where there is someone sitting
at his/her table; you propably can't start a conversation without
walking next to him/her; instead of just sitting at the opposite side at table
next to him/her and starting conversation.

Speaking of conversations on Ambermoon;
I think the parser logic could be more intelligent.
It seems some people you meet in the game,
seem to forget the conversation you just had with them;
considering their replies, at least; although the key words
should appear ok.
Ok, this is no Ultima 6; and even that did not have "perfect"
parser/logic regarding conversations.
Because I haven't dug deep into the code; I can't possibly
imagine how difficult a task would be to improve that
part of the game (!?).

I hope Pyrcador and other people there; behind the Ambermoon
(+Advanced) project(-s) are reading this and that they won't
get me wrong; I already think that even the fact that those
projects exists is a dream come true !
So, please forgive me, if you think that I have made some
suggestions that are unreasonable and irrealistic.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by macce2

I currently can't transfer the files to my Amiga system which doesn't have any network option.Generally, I'd have to burn some cd-r:s on my old PC to transfer larger amounts of data,
but could use some dd floppies for smaller files.

Which Amiga do you have? It is very easy to add external IDE->CF adapter which is RW on PC. They are very cheap. Or consider a serial port network. All you need is a serial cable very very cheap. I find AmigaExplorer from Cloanto (the people who do Amiga Forever) the easiest to use SW for Windows users.

Originally Posted by macce2

So maybe there are some other classic Amiga 060 users there, who could test the WHDload installation of Ambermoon v1.16 !?

WinUAE users have not reported the issues you are describing. That is not to say they don't exist. Let's eliminate user error. Incorrect AmigaOS installation? Possibly a conflict with AmigaOS patches? Incorrectly partitioned HDD? Or possibly broken hardware? Then investigate further.

Originally Posted by macce2

Most of the problems I have encountered on my classic Amiga 060 setup

You'll have to give full details. Amiga version, ROM version, Accelerator type, OS version, Filesystem version.

Originally Posted by macce2

I really hope that the most severe 060 issues of Ambermoon & Advanced will be fixed soon.

We are not working on them. We need accurate bug reports that we can reproduce.

Originally Posted by macce2

Yeah, I suspect some filesystem related to be the cause for part of my problems. I modified my PFS configuration and it seems I'm (mostly) able to run Ambermoon Advanced.

Modified how? I would recommend you make a small FFS partition for running Ambermoon for testing.

Originally Posted by macce2

Now the battle sequences do seem to start without freezing the system; but occasionally, there's some graphics corruption on the battle animations. However, I'm not not the only one who has reported those problems.

They are extremely rare and almost impossible to reproduce. If you're having lots of experiences you need to give accurate bug report so it can be reproduced. Until it can be reproduced it will get filed under "possible user error".

Cosmetic changes such as described above are very unlikely to get implemented. Changes to animations or gfx etc. as we are programmers not artists. Plus back=porting any changes made to Ambermoon.net to the Amiga version is time consuming and a potential source of new bugs.

Originally Posted by macce2

It seems some people you meet in the game, seem to forget the conversation you just had with them; considering their replies, at least; although the key words should appear ok.

A lot of these are bugs. We've worked through ones which were reported with enough details to fix. If I can explain (remember Pyrdacor is the one who understands the underlaying programming) map events trigger global variables which change the reactions to keywords and change text blocks. If you have a conversation and later it doesn't make sense (e.g. they talk about something which is now completed as if it isn't) the map events and global variables can be wrong. Pyrdacor has fixed some of these, even introducing new ones with alternate text. All I can suggest is that you report what you think is a bug and we can look at it.

[macce2]

Originally Posted by alexh

Which Amiga do you have? It is very easy to add external IDE->CF adapter which is RW on PC. They are very cheap. Or consider a serial port network. All you need is a serial cable very very cheap. I find AmigaExplorer from Cloanto (the people who do Amiga Forever) the easiest to use SW for Windows users.

Amiga 4000D.
I do have a Plipbox card; but currently the main problem with file
transfers is that my PC system is at my mama's house
and Amiga is on my place. And my only net connection there is via
my smart phone.

Originally Posted by alexh

WinUAE users have not reported the issues you are describing. That is not to say they don't exist. Let's eliminate user error. Incorrect AmigaOS installation? Possibly a conflict with AmigaOS patches? Incorrectly partitioned HDD? Or possibly broken hardware? Then investigate further.

Yeah, you're right; those kind of causes should be eliminated first.
I think my Amiga OS 3.9 installation (with Boing Bags, of course)
is currently ok.
However, I do have some potentially suspicious patches installed;
but i think I already found the main problem.
It was the configuration of my recently installed new filesystem
(PFS aio; now switched to PFS aio Custom version; even though I
have no clue how it does differ from the standard PFS aio !?
I think the main problem with that is the lack of documentation !?).
I was using wrong Mask and MaxTransfer settings for the partitions
of my new Scsi hard drive.
I did change those settings to proper values and it seems
that now my system is properly configured.

Originally Posted by alexh

We are not working on them. We need accurate bug reports that we can reproduce.

I hope (and assume)that the game / code will be as 060 combatible as possible !

Originally Posted by alexh

They are extremely rare and almost impossible to reproduce. If you're having lots of experiences you need to give accurate bug report so it can be reproduced. Until it can be reproduced it will get filed under "possible user error".

Right. I was just thinking that one advantage of using the WHDload
version of Ambermoon would be the ability to make a dump file
in case of some (severe) errors !?
However, as I wrote earlier, for some reason the WHDified Ambermoon
does seem to run considerably slower than the standard installation
on my system; particularly on the 3D sections of the game.
Btw; I think the 2D sections of Ambermoon (inside buildings etc)
are running too fast; IMHO.
So, I think that the main character sprite(!?) should move a little slower.
Difficult to explain; I think it might improve the athmosphere of the
game a bit .

Maybe someone there playing Ambermoon on a slower setup would
tell his/her opinion of that.

Originally Posted by alexh

Cosmetic changes such as described above are very unlikely to get implemented. Changes to animations or gfx etc. as we are programmers not artists. Plus back=porting any changes made to Ambermoon.net to the Amiga version is time consuming and a potential source of new bugs.

Yeah, I know.
However, I think that it's good to tell one's opinions and requests
right now, when the project is going on.

Originally Posted by alexh

A lot of these are bugs. We've worked through ones which were reported with enough details to fix. If I can explain (remember Pyrdacor is the one who understands the underlaying programming) map events trigger global variables which change the reactions to keywords and change text blocks. If you have a conversation and later it doesn't make sense (e.g. they talk about something which is now completed as if it isn't) the map events and global variables can be wrong. Pyrdacor has fixed some of these, even introducing new ones with alternate text. All I can suggest is that you report what you think is a bug and we can look at it.

Yeah, I surely will !

[Sneezeface81]

Hi guys,
I've recently tryed Ambermoon v1.17 (english, hd version) with my previous savegames from v1.12. Everything worked fine but I've experienced many corrupted texts in various game situations, such as merchants, battles, campfires and more.
In particular, texts during battles became long weird sequences of character "ç" and whitespaces.

Is this some kind of bug? Do you guys have any advice to sort this out? I've switched back to v1.12 for now.

Running on A1200, 68030, KS 3.2.1

Thanks

[alexh]

The best place to report issues is here

https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoon/issues

Try to put as much detail in the bug report as possible, a game save nearby, directions to trigger the bug, take a photo with your mobile and add it.

Since v1.17 about 3 bugs have been fixed, non associated with what you're describing.

Pyrdacor has been concentrating on Ambermoon Advance, a fork of Ambermoon which changes many things including making the game pace more fair and new dungeons and storylines. The base Ambermoon branch has not been touched since a late fix to v1.17 in Aug 22.

The big change between v1.12 and v1.17 is the move to a single binary for English and German and the localisation (moving all texts out of the executables and into editable text files). There was a bug in the installer for a while when it didn't copy the new files.

[Megalomaniac]

Is Ambermoon a good RPG to start with? It's the highest rated on LemonAmiga, though maybe its lack of an English release in the day means that (outside Germany, at least) only the biggest RPG fans ever played it?

[grond]

Ambermoon certainly is the best RPG on the Amiga, one of the best Amiga games ever and generally a very good RPG game for 1990s technology.

[Sneezeface81]

Originally Posted by alexh

The best place to report issues is here

https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoon/issues

Try to put as much detail in the bug report as possible, a game save nearby, directions to trigger the bug, take a photo with your mobile and add it.

Since v1.17 about 3 bugs have been fixed, non associated with what you're describing.

Pyrdacor has been concentrating on Ambermoon Advance, a fork of Ambermoon which changes many things including making the game pace more fair and new dungeons and storylines. The base Ambermoon branch has not been touched since a late fix to v1.17 in Aug 22.

The big change between v1.12 and v1.17 is the move to a single binary for English and German and the localisation (moving all texts out of the executables and into editable text files). There was a bug in the installer for a while when it didn't copy the new files.

Thanks Alex, I will report this issue also on github.

For sake of completeness, I took a look at https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...nTextExport.7z.
Corrupted strings during my game sessions appear to come from Text.amb/FormatMessages in the archive.

Some examples of how these strings are displayed during game:

• "{0} regains {1} LP." (file 010.txt) is displayed as the character name followed by and the amount of health regained on a new line. With Thalion as example:
  
  THALION
  0
  
  
• "{0} GP. Agreed?" ( file 014.txt) is displayed as item cost followed by "çççç?"
• "{0} did {1} points of damage!" (file 020.txt) is displayed as character name followed by sequences of "ç" and whitespaces

I think something is corrupting strings when they are concatenated with numbers, but didn't had time to investigate it further in the source code.

[alexh]

This is really good debug information.

Follow it up with a save game and instructions on how to trigger over on GitHub and I am sure Pyrdacor will follow up within 24hrs

FYI the file https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...nTextExport.7z is not used as part of the build and so is not guaranteed to be what is in v1.17. (I'm not sure why it is there. I think it is an accidental commit. The same goes for the newer https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...tOutput1.14.7z)

The only valid file is https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...files/Text.amb

You'd have to use the Ambermoon tools to extract it's contents.

[Sneezeface81]

Well, this is kinda funny...
I've spent some time compiling and using some of Pyrdacor tools to extract strings from the released Text.amb file. Nothing looked out of place or buggy for what I've seen, so I fired up my amiga and launched the game to take some pictures of the bug BUT of course every string looked just right. What kind of sorcery is that?

It appears that the responsible for the trick are MuMove4k and/or MuFastZero.
I have a 030+MMU and my WB did always work fine with none of them installed. I've just tried them yesterday for the very first time to see any tangible performance boost and decided to leave them there for a while.

Ambermoon is just fine! I think this is definitely not a bug related to the game so is not worth to open any issue on github.

For other players and people from the future, here some picture of the bugged strings when the MMU tools are not active.

Thanks Alexh for your hints and Pyrdacor for the amazing work! Will try Ambermoon Advanced soon

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by alexh

This is really good debug information.

Follow it up with a save game and instructions on how to trigger over on GitHub and I am sure Pyrdacor will follow up within 24hrs

FYI the file https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...nTextExport.7z is not used as part of the build and so is not guaranteed to be what is in v1.17. (I'm not sure why it is there. I think it is an accidental commit. The same goes for the newer https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...tOutput1.14.7z)

The only valid file is https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...files/Text.amb

You'd have to use the Ambermoon tools to extract it's contents.

Hi i discovered that AM2_CPU only triggers the A500 version of Ambermoon.

The A1200 options are greyed out (ceiling + floor in 3D are missing on screen).

[alexh]

I never experienced this but I was using WinUAE. Report it on GitHub. Put the Ambermoon version number and the HW configuration

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by alexh

I never experienced this but I was using WinUAE. Report it on GitHub. Put the Ambermoon version number and the HW configuration

I did it. Robert is aware, i used his french archive made with a fix.

the 68030 should trigger the 1200 version and it does not :/

[alexh]

I've commented on the bug on GitHub. Perhaps Pyrdacor forgot to replace the file "Ambermoon" in v1.17 French pre-release? (Compare it to the original and if it is identical that is the problem)

Steal the one from English v1.17 and it might fix it.

https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoo...lish/Ambermoon

[Edit]I had a look at the file in the French directory on GitHub, it's certainly not the same as the original so this is perhaps not the issue

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

the 68030 should trigger the 1200 version and it does not :/

There is no such thing as an "A1200" version. There is CPU version and BLITTER version

[bubbob42]

The Ambermoon source code has been released, right after the game was featured in a German retro podcast.

Some documentation about source and data files is included.

https://github.com/jhorneman/ambermoon

[alexh]

It's not the full source. You can't use it to build the game. It's probably not the last either. But it should really help with the Ambermoon Ghidra project. Many thanks to Jurie for hunting it down