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Old 13 March 2008, 16:07   #1
Minuous
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W98/ME support removal

Quote:
Does not run on Windows 98/ME anymore.
Why is this? The emulator is supposed to get better with successive releases, but this is making it worse not better.

What new feature is implemented that is impossible to achieve under Win 9x?
This seems to be a decision that has been made for ideological rather than technical reasons.

All this will achieve is forking of the emulator into two versions: an "official" fork that only works on some versions of Windows, and a "good" fork that runs on the full range of Win32 systems.
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Old 13 March 2008, 17:28   #2
Toni Wilen
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I smell troll because this has been announced months ago.

Because w9x/me has been obsolete for years.
Because I wanted to remove all compatibility crap.
Because you have been and still are annoying.
I don't care.

Try rewriting your "guestion" if you want better answer.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 13 March 2008 at 17:44.
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Old 13 March 2008, 17:48   #3
pbareges
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win98 is still my favorite anti-virus
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Old 13 March 2008, 18:20   #4
laser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
Why is this? The emulator is supposed to get better with successive releases, but this is making it worse not better.

What new feature is implemented that is impossible to achieve under Win 9x?
This seems to be a decision that has been made for ideological rather than technical reasons.

All this will achieve is forking of the emulator into two versions: an "official" fork that only works on some versions of Windows, and a "good" fork that runs on the full range of Win32 systems.

you still use win98? I can't believe

you live in the primate' times
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Old 13 March 2008, 18:33   #5
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I support Toni ridding us of the win98 "evil". It was and still is a fair OS... but it is full of holes and based on DOS. It's old... 10 years old, we've moved on from that a fair few times now(to ME/2000/XP and now Vista). Unless your computer needs winding up like clock each time you use it I suggest that upgrade to XP or Vista in the very near future. I use an Athlon XP 2800 system with a half decent graphics card and that does me proud for most things.
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Old 13 March 2008, 18:43   #6
Toni Wilen
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I guess I can reply seriously:

- MSVC 2008 does not support Windows 9x/ME at all. Only error message appears if MSVC 2008 compiled executable is run on 9x/ME. (can be fixed by not using crt but I don't bother. See last point.)
- 9x/ME is officially DEAD. (I originally planned to drop it years ago but I waited until year >= 2008)
- 9x/ME does not support many new APIs that NT based Windows' have = code duplication or annoying if/else structures.
- I don't want to run 9x/ME = 9x/ME compatibility code can and will be broken too easily.
- I have gotten very few 9x/ME related bug reports last year = it seems nobody uses it. (which is good)

and most importantly:

- WinUAE is "only" a hobby, I only develop it because I want to do it (not because someone uses it) and there are things I don't want to do FOR FREE. Of course if someone pays..
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Old 13 March 2008, 18:59   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I guess I can reply seriously:

- MSVC 2008 does not support Windows 9x/ME at all. Only error message appears if MSVC 2008 compiled executable is run on 9x/ME. (can be fixed by not using crt but I don't bother. See last point.)
- 9x/ME is officially DEAD. (I originally planned to drop it years ago but I waited until year >= 2008)
- 9x/ME does not support many new APIs that NT based Windows' have = code duplication or annoying if/else structures.
- I don't want to run 9x/ME = 9x/ME compatibility code can and will be broken too easily.
- I have gotten very few 9x/ME related bug reports last year = it seems nobody uses it. (which is good)

and most importantly:

- WinUAE is "only" a hobby, I only develop it because I want to do it (not because someone uses it) and there are things I don't want to do FOR FREE. Of course if someone pays..
Goddamn Toni, you are so damned selfish!

Why can't you support our obsolete computer on Obsolete hardware?? Damn, you are in someones pocket for sure.

Damn you Toni for being so damned unreasonable.*
















i was being sarcastic!
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Old 13 March 2008, 19:12   #8
Minuous
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Quote:
I smell troll because this has been announced months ago.
I haven't been online much lately and was not aware of it until today.

Quote:
Because w9x/me has been obsolete for years.
One could argue that XP is likewise obsolete.

Quote:
Because I wanted to remove all compatibility crap.
If it's written to the standard Win32 API it shouldn't need "compatibility crap", my emu runs fine on Win95 to Vista without the need for any such "compatibility crap".

Quote:
Because you have been and still are annoying.
I think that kind of remark was uncalled for and totally unjustified.

Quote:
I don't care.
Obviously.

Quote:
- MSVC 2008 does not support Windows 9x/ME at all. Only error message appears if MSVC 2008 compiled executable is run on 9x/ME.
In that case the obvious solution is to use a non-lame compiler.

Quote:
- 9x/ME does not support many new APIs that NT based Windows' have = code duplication or annoying if/else structures.
None of which are necessary for the writing of emulators.

Quote:
I don't want to run 9x/ME = 9x/ME compatibility code can and will be broken too easily.
This is why there are beta tests...

Quote:
I have gotten very few 9x/ME related bug reports last year = it seems nobody uses it. (which is good)
Perhaps they have given up sending you bug reports since you just ignore them even when they are proven to exist, eg. the audio.device compatibility bug. There are for example some task-switching bugs which I have not bothered to report since you are so slack. Not sure whether they apply to all versions of Windows or not. Most programmers are happy to receive bug reports and fix the bugs. You would rather hide your head in the sand and ignore the bugs and hope they will go away.
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Old 13 March 2008, 19:46   #9
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There's so much ignorance in the above post, I don't even know how to begin writing a reply.
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Old 13 March 2008, 19:53   #10
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@Minuous

Why not just grab the source and create your own "fork"? Or, better yet, just fuck off.
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Old 13 March 2008, 19:59   #11
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
One could argue that XP is likewise obsolete.
No, it is still supported by MS. W9x/ME was obsoleted by MS ages ago.
And it does not even matter, Windows 2000 is not really supported either but it has all required new NT API calls.

Quote:
If it's written to the standard Win32 API it shouldn't need "compatibility crap", my emu runs fine on Win95 to Vista without the need for any such "compatibility crap".
Do you have direct harddrive support? Do you have direct CDROM support? Do you have direct network support? GetWriteWatch() is not supported. non-NT serial port detection is lame. Device hotswap messages are more or less NT-only. All lower level stuff is extremely crappy on non-NT. RAWINPUT is XP+ only (not even Windows 2000..)

and so on..

Hint: none of those are supported by non-NT Windows versions

Most applications don't need those but WinUAE isn't your standard Windows application.

I don't care if someone does stripped down WinUAE for Windows 9x/ME. I do not want to do it.

Quote:
I think that kind of remark was uncalled for and totally unjustified.
No, you have annoyed me previously at least once. I don't help annoying persons and I do reply rudely.
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Old 13 March 2008, 20:12   #12
Minuous
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I'm sorry if receiving bug reports annoys you, however you should not shoot the messager: I did not create the bug, I merely pointed it out in the hope of assisting you to fix, or at least document, it. Fixing the bug would not really help me personally as I have already rewritten my programs to work around the bug. I assumed you would want to take pride in your work, and have confidence in the accuracy of the emulation, by having a bug-free program. You can understand my reluctance to waste my time further by sending reports for bugs which you seem unlikely to fix. Surely fixing fundamental emulation bugs should take priority over adding new features, or removing existing working features.

Last edited by Minuous; 13 March 2008 at 20:17.
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Old 13 March 2008, 20:24   #13
vodley
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Might I take this opportunity to personally thank the developers of UAE, credited on Wikipedia as Bernd Schmidt (UAE,) Toni Wilen (WinUAE,) and Richard Drummond (E-UAE) for their time and productive efforts that allow us to enjoy the brilliant Amiga systems on current, affordable hardware?

It's wonderful to have access to as much, and more, of the productivity and fun I gave up when I couldn't afford to repair my hardware so long ago.

It's reassuring to know that for the price of a second hand laptop, even one running a pre- XP OS, that I can have a terrific classic Amiga system. Running WinUAE on an "old" 3.2 Ghz P4 under XP? Holy Smokes!
The state of the WinUAE is so good as it stands, it's hard to imagine what added or improved functionality we will enjoy.
You have my gratitude!
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Old 13 March 2008, 20:43   #14
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
I'm sorry if receiving bug reports annoys you,
This is getting totally off-topic but I think you should re-check your so called bug report again.. (I don't mean the newer one, I ignored it completely after what happened with the first one)

I also remember you posting something annoying in other forums too. I don't forget past experiences easily.. If you are still wondering about my semi-hostile replies..
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Old 13 March 2008, 21:38   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulyQ View Post
I support Toni ridding us of the win98 "evil". It was and still is a fair OS... but it is full of holes and based on DOS. It's old... 10 years old, we've moved on from that a fair few times now(to ME/2000/XP and now Vista). Unless your computer needs winding up like clock each time you use it I suggest that upgrade to XP or Vista in the very near future. I use an Athlon XP 2800 system with a half decent graphics card and that does me proud for most things.
I use 98SE on a computer I rebuilt a few months ago. Still solid but I don't use it everyday at all, and it is definitely obsolete haha.
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Old 13 March 2008, 22:47   #16
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@ Boing1000: and so say all of us ! LMAO !

and welcome back Galahad.
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Old 14 March 2008, 00:00   #17
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hey Toni

why winuae not works on windows 3.11 ?

I want support for windows 3.11 and directX 0.3

come on Toni..don't be fork
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Old 14 March 2008, 00:11   #18
exoticaga
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Just wondering.

As i am totally against ms using drm. Which would affect my media going through drm OS's. I decided long ago that i could and will do without that. If microsoft continue to use drm media damaging code in its future OS's. And when microsoft stops supporting XP that is drm free.

Would then soon after winuae will stop supporting xp ? (hypethetical question i know).

Posted here as could be similar situation to the 98 one posted above. XP ultimate stability never a problem for me, whereas 98 always was. I will be an xp user forever, or at least until microsoft drops totally drm in a future os.
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Old 14 March 2008, 01:49   #19
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@Minuous

Toni works very hard and has made WinUAE a great example of how to do an emulator the right way. Cut him a break if he does not want to support old DOS crap dressed up as an OS.

Because of Toni, WinUAE is leaps and bounds further than it ever was before him.

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Old 14 March 2008, 14:59   #20
Arnie
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these are a few thing s that i have never found

Unicorn
four leaf clover
pot of gold
bugs in winuae
someone still using win98
any point to minuous`s posts
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