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Old 04 December 2020, 16:37   #21
meynaf
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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
Thomas,

Meynaf is wrong. He know's he's wrong. He's just arguing with you for entertainment. While there's nothing wrong with that, you could both choose something more worthwhile to argue about.

Regards,

The rest of the internet.
No i am right and this post of yours is just trolling.
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Old 04 December 2020, 16:56   #22
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No i am right and this post of yours is just trolling.
You're now trying to start something with someone who wasn't even speaking to you.
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Old 04 December 2020, 16:58   #23
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You're now trying to start something with someone who wasn't even speaking to you.
Speaking about me is enough.
If you don't want to start something with me, just stop doing that.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:01   #24
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Speaking about me is enough.
If you don't want to start something with me, just stop doing that.
What?

Really?

This?

Grow up.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:05   #25
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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
What?

Really?

This?

Grow up.
Are you serious? Meynaf and Thomas have a different opinion, that's all there's to it, but you accuse meynaf of knowing that he is wrong and just arguing for entertainment. Perhaps you need to consider what you're saying here.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:10   #26
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Are you serious? Meynaf and Thomas have a different opinion, that's all there's to it, but you accuse meynaf of knowing that he is wrong and just arguing for entertainment. Perhaps you need to consider what you're saying here.
You, sir, have failed to read or understand this thread.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:13   #27
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Next trolling post will be reported immediately. This is all i can do about it.

I am not arguing for entertainment - it ain't entertaining at all, actually.
But just to show any reader that the dominant opinion isn't necessarily the only one, let alone the best.

I am often using names in code, but not always. As sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's not.

Often the name is just cryptic or too general and does not say much about what it is.

As an exemple, can you (anyone) tell me what "Count" is and which structure it belongs ?
Can you tell by memory, after many years without using them, what "MaxLocMem", "MaxExtMem", "DispCount" and "SysFlags" are ?
Or what are "pr_CIS", "pr_COS" ?
Or "bsblthd", "bsblttl" ?
I don't think so.
This shows "self documenting" is a delusion.
A comment is REQUIRED to tell the reader what these are.

Now consider the following :
 jsr -636(a6)		; d0 = NewObjectA (a0=class, a1=classID, a2=taglist)

It documents the bloody thing a lot better than just using the LVO doesn't it ?
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:20   #28
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Do you actually know whether $18 is the right offset? If so, how?
Yes, because I looked it up, which I don't like doing because I find it a pain, but it's still correct.

Quote:
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And if not, how would you find out without debugging?
You can just double check those numbers. Not a big deal, just annoying.

Look, I get where you're coming from and I don't think you're wrong, but meynaf isn't either. He limits this to a small part of his code, namely an OS framework, which gets reused over and over again.

The advantage of his approach is clearly that he limits dependencies to a single file which itself doesn't have any dependencies what so ever. It's not an approach I like, but I can certainly appreciate the idea behind it and don't see what's so bad about it.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:24   #29
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Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
Next trolling post will be reported immediately. This is all i can do about it.
Fine. Please report now.

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Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
I am not arguing for entertainment - it ain't entertaining at all, actually.
But just to show any reader that the dominant opinion isn't necessarily the only one, let alone the best.
It's actually the opposite, the best opinion in this case happens to be the dominent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
I am often using names in code, but not always. As sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's not.

Often the name is just cryptic or too general and does not say much about what it is.
If a name is cryptic, etc. then this is a good case for a a comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
As an exemple, can you (anyone) tell me what "Count" is and which structure it belongs ?
Can you tell by memory, after many years without using them, what "MaxLocMem", "MaxExtMem", "DispCount" and "SysFlags" are ?
Or what are "pr_CIS", "pr_COS" ?
Or "bsblthd", "bsblttl" ?
I don't think so.
This shows "self documenting" is a delusion.
A comment is REQUIRED to tell the reader what these are.
This is not the same thing at all. You are not helping your case.
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Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
Now consider the following :
 jsr -636(a6)		; d0 = NewObjectA (a0=class, a1=classID, a2=taglist)

It documents the bloody thing a lot better than just using the LVO doesn't it ?
Again,

Feel free to report this post.

By suggesting to people that it is better to look up, work out, calcaulate, whatever, that the value -636 is the offset where you need to jsr to, and then just throw away that information, is just plain bad advise.

I stick to my belief that you only continue in this thread to try to wind people up.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:26   #30
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I stick to my belief that you only continue in this thread to try to wind people up.
How shortsighted.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:28   #31
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The advantage of his approach is clearly that he limits dependencies to a single file which itself doesn't have any dependencies what so ever. It's not an approach I like, but I can certainly appreciate the idea behind it and don't see what's so bad about it.
Then, if this is so important, which is plainly isn't, why not simply reproduce the constants in this file, or would that have the unwelcome side effect of making the code easier to understand?
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:32   #32
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Then, if this is so important, which is plainly isn't, why not simply reproduce the constants in this file, or would that have the unwelcome side effect of making the code easier to understand?
Sure, you could, but it doesn't make anything easier to understand, because of the comments that are already there. It's just a convenience, a nice one, but still just a convenience.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:33   #33
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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
Fine. Please report now.
So you admit you were trolling ? Wow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
It's actually the opposite, the best opinion in this case happens to be the dominent.
Don't be so sure of that. Code more and make your own with experience, instead of just following others.


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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
This is not the same thing at all. You are not helping your case.
Why wouldn't it be the same thing ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
By suggesting to people that it is better to look up, work out, calcaulate, whatever, that the value -636 is the offset where you need to jsr to, and then just throw away that information, is just plain bad advise.
I'm not throwing away any information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
I stick to my belief that you only continue in this thread to try to wind people up.
I am not asking anyone to change their coding style, i'm just defending mine. Can't you see the difference ?
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:34   #34
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comments that are already there
The comments were not already there. There was no code there. The comments were presumably typed at the same time that the code was. Over and over. Pointlessly and more pointlessly.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:34   #35
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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
Then, if this is so important, which is plainly isn't, why not simply reproduce the constants in this file, or would that have the unwelcome side effect of making the code easier to understand?
Why not reproducing the constants in this file, you ask ?
The answer is : to avoid namespace pollution.
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:43   #36
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So you admit you were trolling ? Wow.
Really? You got that from that? You idiot.
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Don't be so sure of that. Code more and make your own with experience, instead of just following others.
20 years of professional software development, 10 years of development manager experience, now retired and coding only for fun until the ski slopes open. But sure, I'll code more and make my own with experience.

Or, maybe, $18 everywhere. Sure, that's much better.
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I am not asking anyone to change their coding style, i'm just defending mine. Can't you see the difference ?
Why do you feel the need? Someone just offered you some very good advice based on their own professional experience, but instead you wanted to start this?
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:49   #37
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Why not reproducing the constants in this file, you ask ?
The answer is : to avoid namespace pollution.
That would only be an issue if you were including your code rather than linking it. But, you've got better coding habits that that, surely?
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Old 04 December 2020, 17:59   #38
meynaf
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Really? You got that from that? You idiot.
I said i would report trolling post and you said "just report". The link is easy to make.
But now you're even insulting, and guess what : this has been reported.


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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
20 years of professional software development, 10 years of development manager experience, now retired and coding only for fun until the ski slopes open. But sure, I'll code more and make my own with experience.
Experience of other languages is of little use for asm...
But yes, please make your own opinion.


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Originally Posted by Ernst Blofeld View Post
Or, maybe, $18 everywhere. Sure, that's much better.
No, not "everywhere". Read the thread again.


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Why do you feel the need? Someone just offered you some very good advice based on their own professional experience, but instead you wanted to start this?
I didn't start this !
Read again.
I had a question, then an answer with a suggestion.
I replied with simple explanation why the suggestion wasn't applicable.
And then a whole house fell on me.


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That would only be an issue if you were including your code rather than linking it. But, you've got better coding habits that that, surely?
Linking is impossible in that case. Code is very adaptative, linkers can't do that.

Now if you think i'm so bad a coder who can't do things properly, i suggest you have a look at this page :
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85200
Count my name there.
All these of course use my system framework includes - which provide automatic error handling and even resource tracking.
And they all work fine.
With numbers inside.
Not using a linker.
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Old 04 December 2020, 18:03   #39
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I prefer to always use the numbers. Makes debugging easier because it does only know numbers and this better matches the source, which in turn does not depend on anything external and assembles faster.
Reposting your words for clarification.
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Old 04 December 2020, 18:13   #40
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Reposting your words for clarification.
Right, my "always" was clumsy. It's "always" but just for OS stuff.
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