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Old 25 July 2020, 15:47   #721
IanS
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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
Yeah, do it. Work for a few years on it and then see how many people will follow you with this.
To be honest, this is the only realistic option to have modern stability, drivers for modern devices and interfaces, memory management and multicore/multiprocessor systems. It's not a new idea, stripping down to a relatively bare Linux kernel and adding a compatability layer to use native Linux system calls. As I recall, Amithlon did it and Apple used used a similar idea when going from 68K to X86 too. Not having used AOS 4 or MorphOS myself, I'm not sure if they utilise a similar idea to for their kernels. I daresay even 68K Linux probably has more developers than AOS 3.x too.

I can already hear the protests... "But it wouldn't be Amiga OS!", "It wouldn't be as lightweight or as fast". "Linux is the devil's work!"

Of course, I doubt anybody is likely to do this anyway.
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Old 25 July 2020, 15:59   #722
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Of course, I doubt anybody is likely to do this anyway.
Dr. Michal Schulz of the AROS team is working on Arix which is exactly as you described. Since this is not an Arix thread I'll leave it at that.
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Old 25 July 2020, 16:55   #723
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Dr. Michal Schulz of the AROS team is working on Arix which is exactly as you described. Since this is not an Arix thread I'll leave it at that.
There were various ideas floating around the internet over the years, although I've not followed this particular one, but I wish them luck. My suspicion is it will, unfortunately, be treated like Aros, Morphos, OS4, 3.14 etc. There will be fans, detractors, vehement arguments, deep divisions and the developers will get fed up and leave.

I'm looking forward to seeing how OS 3.2 develops, if it succeeds and what Hyperion does afterwards. Flogging one dead horse hasn't turned out to be too successful for them.
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Old 07 August 2020, 23:43   #724
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First of all, let me join everyone else and say "Thank you for working on new Amiga OS builds"! I think it's just awesome we're getting actual new updates, complete with ROMs and physical floppies.

I bought a copy of 3.1.4 this week from Amiga on the Lake. I'm sure 3.2 is "two weeks" away (just like every other software project I ever worked on), but if it encourages Hyperion to keep letting these guys crank out code, great! Plus I like installer floppies

I haven't done any dev for 2.0 and newer builds of the OS, and my 1.3 knowledge is a little fuzzy at the moment too. I was doing a little comparison a couple of years ago about developing for classic Mac OS 6.x vs Amiga OS 1.x, and I know there were some things I thought would make developer's lives a lot easier, but I'll try to get up to speed on the 3.x NDK first.

But one thing I do remember and wanted to inquire about for 3.3 or 3.4: how impossible would it be to resize the window gadgets so that they are not vertically squished if you are in 640x400/512 or any other 1:1 pixel size mode? We're still using the same proportions for gadgets that were designed in 1985 when everyone had color TVs, and interlaced mode was definitely second-class.

I'm not sure what that would break for properly-conforming programs (memory fuzzy, like I said), but I think it would make a big impact on how good the WorkBench can look. I think (don't have data!) that the reality is that these days, most retro Amiga users all use flicker fixers or more powerful graphics cards (or indivision, etc.) and are using the larger screen real estate. (or are just using UAE).

Beyond that, would like to add my vote to support for:
- "better" icon management.
- "cleaner", "clearer" fonts (a la XEN, but a sans and non-sans, and decent set of sizes)
- continue to have options for those of us still on OCS and ECS machines!

Thanks again, really looking forward to 3.2!
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Old 08 August 2020, 01:25   #725
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But one thing I do remember and wanted to inquire about for 3.3 or 3.4: how impossible would it be to resize the window gadgets so that they are not vertically squished if you are in 640x400/512 or any other 1:1 pixel size mode? We're still using the same proportions for gadgets that were designed in 1985 when everyone had color TVs, and interlaced mode was definitely second-class.

I'm not sure what that would break for properly-conforming programs (memory fuzzy, like I said), but I think it would make a big impact on how good the WorkBench can look. I think (don't have data!) that the reality is that these days, most retro Amiga users all use flicker fixers or more powerful graphics cards (or indivision, etc.) and are using the larger screen real estate. (or are just using UAE).
I heard a rumor...

BTW, if you get the itch to start coding on Amiga again and once you believe you have mastered the art of not being driven crazy by Amiga and C, you can always join us.
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Old 08 August 2020, 10:19   #726
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@gulliver



Quote:
Originally Posted by Warty View Post
First of all, let me join everyone else and say "Thank you for working on new Amiga OS builds"!

I reiterate the same too (again)!


Quote:
- "cleaner", "clearer" fonts (a la XEN, but a sans and non-sans, and decent set of sizes)
Besides that 3.x always was configurable in this regard, if you chose to change the default "topaz" then please, please don't change it with font that makes it easy to confuse "l" (lower case "L") and "I" (upper case "i") and "O" (upper case "o") and "0" (numerical digit)!


Pleeeeaaaseee don't!

I hate Helvetica


Quote:
looking forward to 3.2!
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Old 08 August 2020, 20:39   #727
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To be honest, this is the only realistic option to have modern stability, drivers for modern devices and interfaces, memory management and multicore/multiprocessor systems. It's not a new idea, stripping down to a relatively bare Linux kernel and adding a compatability layer to use native Linux system calls. As I recall, Amithlon did it and Apple used used a similar idea when going from 68K to X86 too. Not having used AOS 4 or MorphOS myself, I'm not sure if they utilise a similar idea to for their kernels. I daresay even 68K Linux probably has more developers than AOS 3.x too.
I recall the QNX kernel being a potential choice for an AmigaOS kernel at one point. I'm interested in the L4 family of kernels, particularly seL4, which could provide a basis for a future Amiga OS, but then I'm no OS developer.

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"Linux is the devil's work!"
I thought that was FreeBSD, they have the logo.
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Old 08 August 2020, 22:34   #728
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Here's a preview of the new sketchboard.gadget in action...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sketchboard.png
Views:	366
Size:	39.7 KB
ID:	68414  

Last edited by Minuous; 08 August 2020 at 23:34.
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Old 08 August 2020, 22:46   #729
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
I heard a rumor...
Fantastic! Can't wait.

Quote:
BTW, if you get the itch to start coding on Amiga again and once you believe you have mastered the art of not being driven crazy by Amiga and C, you can always join us.
Thanks, I might take you up on that when I feel I won't be wasting anyone's time. Well, and after I grow a much thicker skin, seems like that will come in handy.
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Old 09 August 2020, 01:44   #730
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Well, and after I grow a much thicker skin, seems like that will come in handy.
Always.
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Old 09 August 2020, 21:57   #731
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I did a quick search but couldnt find an answer, would 3.2 require new roms? I have a 2000 and 3000 that I am itching to upgrade to 3.1.4 but if 3.2 requires new roms, ill wait and get those instead
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Old 10 August 2020, 06:51   #732
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I did a quick search but couldn't find an answer, would 3.2 require new roms? I have a 2000 and 3000 that I am itching to upgrade to 3.1.4 but if 3.2 requires new roms, ill wait and get those instead
AmigaOS 3.2 will require new ROMs but can also work on old ROMs (3.1 and 3.1.4) by using the LoadModule approach which is built into the OS.

Of course, having a physical 3.2 ROM makes things much better since you will be able to boot faster, save memory and fix some additional bugs.
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Old 12 August 2020, 11:03   #733
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Any estimation for release date?
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Old 12 August 2020, 12:31   #734
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Any estimation for release date?
No.
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Old 12 August 2020, 15:09   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanS View Post
To be honest, this is the only realistic option to have modern stability, drivers for modern devices and interfaces, memory management and multicore/multiprocessor systems. It's not a new idea, stripping down to a relatively bare Linux kernel and adding a compatability layer to use native Linux system calls. As I recall, Amithlon did it and Apple used used a similar idea when going from 68K to X86 too. Not having used AOS 4 or MorphOS myself, I'm not sure if they utilise a similar idea to for their kernels. I daresay even 68K Linux probably has more developers than AOS 3.x too.

I can already hear the protests... "But it wouldn't be Amiga OS!", "It wouldn't be as lightweight or as fast". "Linux is the devil's work!"

Of course, I doubt anybody is likely to do this anyway.
Your ideas are not in any way new, and the debates about this have raged all over Amiga forums since the internet was in its infancy.

Basically it comes down to:
* AOS is a hobby OS for the remaining few people using Amigas in 2020
* there is no interest for an OS with these modern features. MacOS covers the arty and trendy people faction, Windows the majority of business users, and Linux the nerds and server shit. There is simply no need for another OS in a world where classic tabletop and laptop OSes are on their way out anyway.
* there have been many tries to modernize AOS. Like Amithlon, or even within sub branches like AROS there once was "Anubis", which was supposed to be a Linux with an AOS UI. Guess what? No one gave a fuck, so it died a year later.

What you are doing here is proposing modern people should use flying cars, and thinking you are a genius for doing that. When the reality is a lot more difficult, and there are reasons why this is not happening.

Plus, talk is cheap.
If you think it's a great idea what you are proposing, put in the man hours, or shut up.

Last edited by Steril707; 13 August 2020 at 11:12.
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Old 12 August 2020, 15:11   #736
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Here's a preview of the new sketchboard.gadget in action...
Is that a whole paint app in one gadget?

Or do I miss something here?
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Old 12 August 2020, 15:20   #737
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@Steril707:

Basically, yes.
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Old 12 August 2020, 15:56   #738
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Is that a whole paint app in one gadget?
Well, it is. What is strange is that this boopsi was actually already present in 3.1, but statically linked into the IconEditor, the Pointer preferences and the WBPattern preferences (slightly modified, case by case). It is much better to have it as a separate library.
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Old 12 August 2020, 16:18   #739
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To be honest, this is the only realistic option to have modern drivers for modern devices and interfaces
There's AmigaOS 4.1 for that purpose. That's another thread though.
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Old 12 August 2020, 16:18   #740
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I haven't seen the new 3.1.4 yet, but there is one thing that bothers me on all Amigaos versions.

When the refresh rate of the resolution is not 50hz for pal timings and 60hz for ntsc timings, there is screen tearing when moving objects on screen.

This is especially a problem with CGX screens on CVisionPPC where 50hz refresh rates disturb your eye too much. (and even with a 50hz screen mode there is visible line that looks like it is tearing the screen slowly in one direction depending on whether your precise 50.xxxxhz mode is higher or lower than the PAL precise timing). Also the mouse pointer will not move smoothly when refresh rate is different from 50hz. (I overcame this problem by creating 100hz screenmodes. This way the mouse moves semi-smoothly alas with a bit of flickering as if there is a double of the mouse pointer.)

Is there a way to fix this? Maybe create a new timer for screenmodes?
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