Legal Issues if Sharing RP9 Snapshots?

tygre · 21 January 2014, 12:56

Hi there!

I looked into the forums for related question as well as on AmigaForever and RetroPlatform but could not find much information/discussions about the legal issues that go with sharing RP9 Snapshots. Given that a RP9 Snapshot includes disk images and such, I would think that it is not legal to distribute them (even for free) unless the disk images contain freely-distributable data... Is that so? Am I missing something?

Cheers!

DH · 21 January 2014, 15:56

Any RP9 that contains adf's of the Workench, or any other (c) files, no matter of the version, is still copyrighted, so you cannot freely share that or a saved snapshot either. Besides, 'Save Snapshot' is ghosted out on (c) material from what I can see.

Basically the RP9 filetype is just a zip archive, so you can open it up with WinZIP, remove the (c) material, if you were able to save a snapshot, and then distribute the rest.

I hope this answers your question

tygre · 22 January 2014, 02:13

Yes, absolutely, thanks!

ma693541 · 22 January 2014, 09:07

There was uploaded some RP9 archives last year, don't remember the uploader's name now, but they contained Workbench images from AmigaForever.
Do we have a "The Zone!" moderator here on EAB?

DH · 22 January 2014, 12:57

Generally the GM's moderate The Zone, but with everything that gets uploaded it's not practical to continually check and download every single upload.

Basically we rely on the good nature of the members to report things that contain, or may contain, (c) material.

A good point to consider is, if you're not sure about the legality of the material you're uploading to the Zone, or even the ftp, then contact a GM or mod, who will gladly help.

Arnie · 22 January 2014, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ma693541

There was uploaded some RP9 archives last year, don't remember the uploader's name now, but they contained Workbench images from AmigaForever.
Do we have a "The Zone!" moderator here on EAB?

Are you sure they contained the images?

You can add a 'built in boot' to the RP9 but the RP9 doesn't contain the boot image, just loads it from AF on the users PC.

ma693541 · 23 January 2014, 02:59

Yes Arnie, im sure one archive contained at least this file; amiga-os-300-workbench.adf or amiga-os-310-workbench.adf. I don't have the RP9 archives anymore on my computer.

DH · 23 January 2014, 11:39

Well, the rp9 file won't exist any more in the Zone now anyway, but it could have been transferred to the ftp, depending on the importance of it.

Somehow I doubt it would have been, being that it would have been a user defined file rather than an original etc. It's probably long gone now.

tygre · 01 September 2014, 04:14

Hi!

Sorry to revive this threat but playing with AmigaForever and my rp9-snapshots of my game of Tower of Babel, I had a problem loading my snapshots because I had reinstalled AmigaForever without adding back the rp9 file of the game.

So, it seems to me that a rp9-snapshots does not contain the original disks/files because the original rp9 file is needed for a snaptshot to be loaded in AmigaForever... However, the sizes of rp9-snapshots is often greater that that of the rp9 file... but maybe it is just because the whole memory is saved?

My question is: could we share rp9-snapshots legally? Only people with the corresponding rp9 file seem to be able to use them. What do you think?

Arnie · 01 September 2014, 18:46

Can you explain what you mean by "snapshots" ?
How do you make a "snapshot" ?

tygre · 02 September 2014, 02:05

Hi Arnie!

Sure: when you are playing a game in AmigaForever (I bought the 2014 Plus Edition, v6.9.3.3), at the bottom of the window (in window mode), you have a tool bar with various "buttons" (some look like 3 1/2 disks, others like a camera).

The first choice is "Options", it looks like, uh..., a green led? and when you click it, this pop-up menu appears, which offers you the choice to "Save Snapshot": this choice create a rp9-snapshot file with which you can start your game exactly where you left it

Buuut, to use a rp9-snapshot, it seems that you must have in the same directory the original rp9 file from which you started the game...

... So, my guess is that we could legally share rp9-snapshot, what do you think?

Arnie · 02 September 2014, 18:50

I reckon you could, after all it's only a save game. As you said, you would need the actual .rp9 available to carry on from the save point. Without it the save point wouldn't work.

tygre · 02 September 2014, 19:42

Hi Arnie et all!

Yes, it seems so: the page on AmigaForever says that

Quote:

If moving or copying snapshots for preservation purposes, it is important to keep together the .rp9-snapshot file(s) with the corresponding .rp9 file.

but it seems to me that, if the receiver of a snapshot has the original rp9 file, it should be able to replay the snapshot... I asked AmigaForever, I'll keep you posted of their answer...

Cheers!

Arnie · 02 September 2014, 20:58

Just had a play around with this and although AF states that you need the corresponding .rp9 you can just rename the .snapshot to .rp9 and the game is playable. So unless you remove the .adf's from the snapshot then I guess you could have problems distributing snapshots.

tygre · 02 September 2014, 21:38

Ah, good catch! Let see now what AF says and if there is a possibility to systematically remove any copyrighted material (ADFs, anything else?) from the rp9-snapshots...

Cheers!

Arnie · 02 September 2014, 21:42

I can't see why Cloanto made the snapshots to include the adf's as the snapshots work just as well without them, and the snapshot is smaller (around 600kb)

tygre · 18 September 2014, 19:06

Hi!

Hope that you are doing well! I did two things:

I talked with someone from Cloanto and he gave me the green light to share RP9-Snapshot files of my game of Tower of Babel
I also tried to rename my RP9-Snapshot files from .rp9-snapshot to .rp9 but, then, I cannot run them: the snapshots that I created do not contain the original ADF file (or files from the original disk). They look like to contain only the state of the emulator.

So, at this point, I would think that it is safe to share RP9-Snapshots (provided that renaming them as RP9 files does not allow to run the original game...).

Cheers!

Arnie · 18 September 2014, 20:04

Do you embed the files in your RP9s' or load them from an external source?

21 January 2014, 12:56	#1
tygre Returning fan! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada Posts: 1,434	Legal Issues if Sharing RP9 Snapshots? Hi there! I looked into the forums for related question as well as on AmigaForever and RetroPlatform but could not find much information/discussions about the legal issues that go with sharing RP9 Snapshots. Given that a RP9 Snapshot includes disk images and such, I would think that it is not legal to distribute them (even for free) unless the disk images contain freely-distributable data... Is that so? Am I missing something? Cheers!

01 September 2014, 04:14	#9
tygre Returning fan! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada Posts: 1,434	Hi! Sorry to revive this threat but playing with AmigaForever and my rp9-snapshots of my game of Tower of Babel, I had a problem loading my snapshots because I had reinstalled AmigaForever without adding back the rp9 file of the game. So, it seems to me that a rp9-snapshots does not contain the original disks/files because the original rp9 file is needed for a snaptshot to be loaded in AmigaForever... However, the sizes of rp9-snapshots is often greater that that of the rp9 file... but maybe it is just because the whole memory is saved? My question is: could we share rp9-snapshots legally? Only people with the corresponding rp9 file seem to be able to use them. What do you think? Last edited by tygre; 01 September 2014 at 04:59. Reason: Added some details

18 September 2014, 19:06	#17
tygre Returning fan! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada Posts: 1,434	Hi! Hope that you are doing well! I did two things: I talked with someone from Cloanto and he gave me the green light to share RP9-Snapshot files of my game of Tower of Babel I also tried to rename my RP9-Snapshot files from .rp9-snapshot to .rp9 but, then, I cannot run them: the snapshots that I created do not contain the original ADF file (or files from the original disk). They look like to contain only the state of the emulator. So, at this point, I would think that it is safe to share RP9-Snapshots (provided that renaming them as RP9 files does not allow to run the original game...). Cheers!

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21 January 2014, 15:56	#2
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Might as well be WORK :( Age: 56 Posts: 4,110	Any RP9 that contains adf's of the Workench, or any other (c) files, no matter of the version, is still copyrighted, so you cannot freely share that or a saved snapshot either. Besides, 'Save Snapshot' is ghosted out on (c) material from what I can see. Basically the RP9 filetype is just a zip archive, so you can open it up with WinZIP, remove the (c) material, if you were able to save a snapshot, and then distribute the rest. I hope this answers your question

22 January 2014, 02:13	#3
tygre Returning fan! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada Posts: 1,434	Yes, absolutely, thanks!

22 January 2014, 09:07	#4
ma693541 Computer Wizard Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ramberg/Norway Posts: 928	There was uploaded some RP9 archives last year, don't remember the uploader's name now, but they contained Workbench images from AmigaForever. Do we have a "The Zone!" moderator here on EAB?

22 January 2014, 12:57	#5
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Might as well be WORK :( Age: 56 Posts: 4,110	Generally the GM's moderate The Zone, but with everything that gets uploaded it's not practical to continually check and download every single upload. Basically we rely on the good nature of the members to report things that contain, or may contain, (c) material. A good point to consider is, if you're not sure about the legality of the material you're uploading to the Zone, or even the ftp, then contact a GM or mod, who will gladly help.

23 January 2014, 02:59	#7
ma693541 Computer Wizard Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ramberg/Norway Posts: 928	Yes Arnie, im sure one archive contained at least this file; amiga-os-300-workbench.adf or amiga-os-310-workbench.adf. I don't have the RP9 archives anymore on my computer.

23 January 2014, 11:39	#8
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Might as well be WORK :( Age: 56 Posts: 4,110	Well, the rp9 file won't exist any more in the Zone now anyway, but it could have been transferred to the ftp, depending on the importance of it. Somehow I doubt it would have been, being that it would have been a user defined file rather than an original etc. It's probably long gone now.

01 September 2014, 18:46	#10
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	Can you explain what you mean by "snapshots" ? How do you make a "snapshot" ?

02 September 2014, 02:05	#11
tygre Returning fan! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada Posts: 1,434	Hi Arnie! Sure: when you are playing a game in AmigaForever (I bought the 2014 Plus Edition, v6.9.3.3), at the bottom of the window (in window mode), you have a tool bar with various "buttons" (some look like 3 1/2 disks, others like a camera). The first choice is "Options", it looks like, uh..., a green led? and when you click it, this pop-up menu appears, which offers you the choice to "Save Snapshot": this choice create a rp9-snapshot file with which you can start your game exactly where you left it Buuut, to use a rp9-snapshot, it seems that you must have in the same directory the original rp9 file from which you started the game... ... So, my guess is that we could legally share rp9-snapshot, what do you think?

02 September 2014, 18:50	#12
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	I reckon you could, after all it's only a save game. As you said, you would need the actual .rp9 available to carry on from the save point. Without it the save point wouldn't work.

02 September 2014, 20:58	#14
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	Just had a play around with this and although AF states that you need the corresponding .rp9 you can just rename the .snapshot to .rp9 and the game is playable. So unless you remove the .adf's from the snapshot then I guess you could have problems distributing snapshots.

02 September 2014, 21:38	#15
tygre Returning fan! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada Posts: 1,434	Ah, good catch! Let see now what AF says and if there is a possibility to systematically remove any copyrighted material (ADFs, anything else?) from the rp9-snapshots... Cheers!

02 September 2014, 21:42	#16
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	I can't see why Cloanto made the snapshots to include the adf's as the snapshots work just as well without them, and the snapshot is smaller (around 600kb)

18 September 2014, 20:04	#18
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	Do you embed the files in your RP9s' or load them from an external source?

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