WinUAE 3.4.0 beta series

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Steve

I've just had a quick look at the new GUI and have a couple of queries.

Is it really necessary to have a new tab just for some information on what emulated hardware is installed? I just think it would be more logical to have this in the 'Expansions' tab as a button that opens its own window, a bit like the 'Contributors' button in the 'About' tab. Anyway maybe I've misunderstood its purpose but just thought I'd give my thoughts.

It is not just a list that shows some information. It can be used to reorder autoconfig boards. (and more in the future)

[SaphirJD]

Compared Winuae WinUAE3220 with the latest available Beta, seems that B19 and before have problems with certain Demos which worked better with 3220 - For example Ephidrena - J or DCS - Klone.

Before it was also possible to have a quickstart A4000 config and push "approximate A500/122 or Cycle exact-mode" at around 200% and also having "more compatible" in the cpu section activated and the demo played rather nice (Ephidrena - J). With the latest Betas if i go over 110%, the timing goes wrong, glitches appear and the general speed is crippled. (J)

In the case of the Klone Demo, that crippled percentage is now around 70% - Before it was possible to go around 150%. In the mentioned older Winuae it was possible to run it with a higher speed without the demo going black and music only playing.


Same problem with crippled speed was already mentioned at some other point, for the Klone Demo from DCS if this is of any use:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...1&postcount=62

So, i guess it is some kind of regression which has happened in the last few versions of Winuae.

[Toni Wilen]

I probably have said this man times but that kind of configs are never supported, speed can and will change between version.
EDIT: If exact beta is known, I can quickly check if there is anything too obvious.

[SaphirJD]

btw. forgot something, i have in Quickstart A4000 mode in combination with "approximate A500/122 or Cycle exact-mode" also more compatible in the cpu section activated - when watching Klone. The last time where i was able to go beyond that speed crippling event was as written in 3220 - and it is broken in 3.3.0 and later released versions - crippled speed, glitches, timing problems with mentioned demos.

It is true that also in 3220 the demo hat a "locking point" where the timing was broken and the next scene just was not loading properly (music only playing) - but this point is reached already at lower values in 3.3 and the new Betas. Now where you wrote that it's possible the speed limitations can change... could it be that it is just a normal change if comparing the possible speed in 3220 and newer and i was wrong with thinking of it as a bug?

[amilo3438]

Hmm, I just tested the Irs-kfix.exe demo in attached A4000 config and there is no sound, only the buzzing !

If started w/o WB directly from HD with irs-kfix.exe it will play sound, but if started from WB will only hear the buzzing ! (it starts to happen from BETA 5)

I did not noticed it before as always started it directly from HD.


@SaphirJD - try with attached A4000 030 config, for demos that do not need 040 it might play better ! (only adjust the speed slider if needed)

[msayed1977]

Originally Posted by SaphirJD

It is true that also in 3220 the demo hat a "locking point" where the timing was broken and the next scene just was not loading properly (music only playing) - but this point is reached already at lower values in 3.3 and the new Betas. Now where you wrote that it's possible the speed limitations can change... could it be that it is just a normal change if comparing the possible speed in 3220 and newer and i was wrong with thinking of it as a bug?

I think there is an ancient bug. It is a slowdown that accumulates over time.

[Toni Wilen]

First, is it 3.4 related or not? If not, this is wrong thread as usual and posts will be moved. Second, anything non-major will be ignored, it is too late.

And finally, "booting from wb" does not really mean anything. lots of things can change, lots of variables, setpatch or not can make big difference etc and can be perfectly normal. (and without logs from both sessions = it means even less).

[amilo3438]

First, it is 3.4 beta5 related. Second, it is not major and it is too late, so please ignore it.
And finally, same WB3.1 floppy in DF0: with same HD "irs-kfix.exe" in DH0: file behave different after beta4.
(logs would not help much, so not attached)

Cheers!

p.s. Not "booting from wb" but starting the "irs-kfix.exe" in DH0: from WB31 in DF0: !


Edit: Logs from beta 4 & 5 attached!
Cannot attach logs, no free space: "Exceeds your quota by 485 Bytes" !

Edit2: Found the reason ! (probably connected with my PC only)
It happens with attached config from post #445 as the same has Z3 mapping set to Real mode.
But if Z3 mapping mode is set to UAE mode it works fine also if started from WB31. (my mistake, sorry)

The attached config from post #445 has RAM set to 16MB Motherboard Fast Ram and 64MB Z3 RAM in Real mode.
When the WB31 is loaded it occupies some of Motherboard Fast Ram and the demo is then forced to use Z3 RAM where it does not like it if is set to Real mode (at least on my PC starting from WinUAE 3400 beta 5). If the demo is started without WB31 it fits into Motherboard Fast Ram, so no problem with sound in this case.

I have now changed the RAM to 32MB Motherboard Fast Ram and 32MB Z3 RAM in Real mode, and the demo works fine even if started from the WB31.
(the only reason I forcing to have Z3 RAM in Real mode is because the "Lasttrain" demo fog effect works with that mode and not with UAE mode)

I am now not sure if on a real A4000 was possible to have the Motherboard Fast Ram more than 16MB and WinUAE allows it to be set to 64MB max !?

Well, seems it was possible with 4x16MB simm hack -> http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=303

[msayed1977]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

First, is it 3.4 related or not? If not, this is wrong thread as usual and posts will be moved. Second, anything non-major will be ignored, it is too late.

And finally, "booting from wb" does not really mean anything. lots of things can change, lots of variables, setpatch or not can make big difference etc and can be perfectly normal. (and without logs from both sessions = it means even less).

I think now we are in front of two different possible bugs:
1. A slowdown and instability, getting worse starting from version 3.3.0 (SaphirJD's problem)
2. No-sound problem in some situations, starting from version 3.4 beta 5 (amilo3438's problem)
I think it is worth waiting for a while before releasing the final version, Toni.
Finally, it is up to you.

[Toni Wilen]

There is no reason for delays, as was noticed, sound was just a demo issue. (Practically no one has Z3 RAM in real world)

Other thing is not a bug, it is just unsupported. Never expect weird CPU speed configs to stay the same.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

(Practically no one has Z3 RAM in real world)

It seems I also do not have Z3 RAM in real world !

With 16MB Motherboard Fast Ram and 64MB Z3 RAM in Real mode got this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Memory Settings

Configured 32-bit address space: 64M, reserved 513M, Z3 available: 449M(UAE), 0M(Real)

Z3 mapping mode:
Real (0x40000000)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, but Lasttrain demo ( http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66492 ) wont show the fog effect if Z3 mapping mode is set to UAE mode, only in Real mode. (a little weird)

Ps.
Btw. my thousandth post here !


EDIT:
Hmm, I wonder isnt there should be MB instead of M !?
Configured 32-bit address space: 64M, reserved 513M, Z3 available: 449M(UAE), 0M(Real)

Also, for "Configured 32-bit address space" it says =64M, but isnt there missing the 16MB of 32-bit Motherboard Fast Ram; so isnt should be 16MB+64MB=80MB then !?

[Toni Wilen]

You won't get "real" Z3 (at least with JIT) when using Windows XP.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

You won't get "real" Z3 (at least with JIT) when using Windows XP.

No changes, same with JIT or without ! (at least on my PC)

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by amilo3438

Also, for "Configured 32-bit address space" it says =64M, but isnt there missing the 16MB of 32-bit Motherboard Fast Ram; so isnt should be 16MB+64MB=80MB then !?

Yeah, Motherboard Fast Ram is 24-bit address space (I guess) so the reason why its not calculated.
(and same for Processor slot Fast RAM)

(I was confused because I replaced "32-bit address space" for "32-bit RAM"!)

[Toni Wilen]

"Real" only counts "real" Zorro III space = 0x40000000 or larger. (But it is XP unsupported. Don't ask.)

[Toni Wilen]

http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae_3400b20.7z
http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae64_3400b20.7z

Beta 20: (Last RC before final)

- Selecting item from HDF "history" drop down worked strangely depending on Windows version.
- Custom event string delay handling fix if delay was last or single event. (But I don't think anyone uses it this way..)

[amilo3438]

@SaphirJD

I think I found the solution for all "problematic" A4000 demos that need 040 CPU to work.

Well, most 040 CPU has max freq. set to 40MHz and below is attached the config that works very close to this A4000 configuration, so all demos should also work fine.

And what is more interesting, this config should work same on every PC. (no matter of CPU speed)
I tested it with my PC when is set to 1.6GHz and when is set to 2.13GHz and got the same results.

All speed problematic demos tested to work fine now: Klone, Shameless, Silkcut... (tested in latest WinUAE 3400 b19)

(I think this now could close all discussion about speed problem when running the demos.)

p.s. If your computer is fast enough, you can then try to disable the JIT and maybe got better results in some demos that produce small glitches because of not precise JIT FPU calculation.

EDIT: The CPU Speed slider and "standard" 040 speeds (can be checked with sysinfo)..
+100% = 040 @25MHz
+150% = 040 @33MHz
+200% = 040 @40MHz (same as in below attached config)
+300% = 040 @50MHz

Before changing the speed slider be sure to Restart the emu first!

This is all approximate, but good for testing to see does a demo still work.

EDIT2: If someone experience a sound problem with attached config, try to change it from Direct3D Graphics API to DirectDraw ! (it might happen to work better specially on an older PC)

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

"Real" only counts "real" Zorro III space = 0x40000000 or larger. (But it is XP unsupported. Don't ask.)

I know that its not working on XP but wonder what the Real mode switch do to Lasttrain demo to work fine, when (as you said) practically no one has Z3 RAM in real world !? (so the demo work fine in real config that has no real mode but no in the emulation)

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae_3400b20.7z
http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae64_3400b20.7z

Beta 20: (Last RC before final)

- Selecting item from HDF "history" drop down worked strangely depending on Windows version.
- Custom event string delay handling fix if delay was last or single event. (But I don't think anyone uses it this way..)

Cheers Toni

"(Last RC before final)", better get testing then

...saying that, I've already thoroughly tested beta18 from a "problematic" game perspective; not much has really changed since so all will most probably still be cool

[DamienD]

Ok, done an hour of testing various games (plus the HDF "history" drop down)...

Thumbs up from me, looking forward to v3.4.0