For those interested in joining the PPC world...

keropi · 19 April 2005, 09:44

OK, I have finally decided to write this, based on my OWN personnal experience, and I will state my OWN personnal thoughts/conclutions...
After some hunting on ebay and other sources, I have managed to buy a BPPC 060/60 603/200 with a complete g-rex package, to replace my 1260/50 with a zorroII piccoloSD64...
after setting everything up, did it really worth all the money/trouble?

NO.

and why?
1. I am just a gamer that likes retrogaming, and frankly all the PPC games I have tried SUCK... I will not try to mention the miserable framerates of quake/quake2/heretic2...
2. The switch of AGA/Voodoo3 just suck.... I am oblidged to use a manual external video switch, which also adds quality loss.... no more auto-switching between modes like the piccoloSD64 did...
3. The stability of ppc apps is questionable, just like their quality and quantity... I had various crashes with quake/quake2, and yes, the card is not overheating and the psu is more than enough...
4. It must now take ~35 seconds for the amiga to boot because of all the soft-resets the ppc/os3,9 patches make... no more 10sec uptime...

Frankly, the only perfomance boost I saw was because of the 68060 being at 60mhz, which is a lot faster than the 50mhz on my previous 1260...
Maybe I have not tried the right apps or something, but I doubt it would make a big difference...
And I am writting all these, not to discourage anyone to enter the ppc world, but to warn retro-gamers as my self before they go spent their money... ppc hardware will not suddenly make the amiga perfom wonders... stick to a 060 with a zorro rtg...
I wonder what other ppc users have to say... remember to be honest

for me, ppc is not what I expected it to be...

Excuse any errors I made, I have a lot in mind right now...

alexh · 19 April 2005, 10:13

I dont know if you ever watch movies on your Amiga, but DivX / XviD playback must only be possible with PPC version of players? I doubt the 060@66 is upto the job?

PPC versions of Emulators such as Gameboy, GBA, Megadrive(Genesis), Snes etc. must all be better? If you are a retrogamer this must be good?

As for the switching... can you not get a program to switch off one of the outputs and then the Monitor will switch for you?( If you have a dual input monitor like me)

manicx · 19 April 2005, 11:16

Keropi, you briefly explained why I can't be bothered spending so much money for all this PPC stuff. If you want to play movies and/or make a small mm box (including emus), buy a mac mini for the same if not less money that this old and crappy PPC hardware and you are done. I am happy with my 68040 Amiga. I can do everything I want like use Art Effect, Brilliance and Image FX and play my favourite games without crashes.

ant512 · 19 April 2005, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by manicx

If you want to play movies and/or make a small mm box (including emus), buy a mac mini for the same if not less money that this old and crappy PPC hardware and you are done.

Xbox, mod chip and XBMC. £160. Unbeatable.

Slayer · 19 April 2005, 12:30

give it a rest people... stop banging the drum :P

I use my PPC every day, infact it's running now...

it's great for watching divx5 and also compiling PPC
native and cross compiling for m68k... ffmpeg converts
things just fine, there are many other warpos tools
if you look for them etc and also learn to compile etc

when I get my A1 which should be shortly I will use
that to compile for the m68k too... I just picked up
my 5th A4000 tonight and what a beauty... I love those
redneck users who store things away perfectly and you'd
swear it came off the assembly line... 040 fastlane
and opal vision card to boot...

just remember...

the aging ppc is just like any other machine it'll do
upto whatever it was supposed to do at the time... no
machine is future proof...

AMIGAZ · 19 April 2005, 12:50

Websurfing is faster with PPC if you install WarpDT for image loading.
Haven't recieved any of my PPC boards yet.
One is from Amiga Superbit and one is broken which I'll send for repair, bought it for just 60 euro (CS PPC 233mhz/'060@60mhz)

Bamiga2002 · 19 April 2005, 15:33

Keropi, with my setup i'm happy with Quake 2 frames-per-second (PPC-BVision, no G-Rex/Mediator..). It plays well, i just wonder how in YOUR setup you say it's slow? I thought a Voodoo 3 card should be some 2-3 times faster than BVision...i'm not sure though.

As with me, some things have been difficult after the switch from 1260/AGA to PPC/BVision, BUT after the cooling/memory issues and other patch/driver things have been taken care of, i have in my hands a very nice system. Compatibility may be an issue once in a while but i've gotten over most of them using extra tools.

I'd never go back to 1260/AGA, but if i had money, i could use it as a second machine. Altough i'd rather get me a 1230 instead 'cause of it's compatibility with WHDLoad and older software.

numb · 19 April 2005, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant512

Xbox, mod chip and XBMC. £160. Unbeatable.

http://specialreserve.co.uk/Umax_Yamada_6395_r.html

DivX player £40, I love mine! Although no emus of course

Amiga1992 · 19 April 2005, 16:22

Right said, my friend keropi. Too sad to see you wasted that much cash in such a setup when you could have invested it in something much better and productive.

Fact is that most applications, if not all, done for it, are of unparalleled amateurish quality, and perform as so. So it's pointless to invest in a PPC board to run homebrew software which is flaky. Games are old PC ports which run like shit. What's the deal?

Yes you can browse the web and stuff, but that is all? I can understand the use of it as a hobby computer but I don't know if it is worth to invest so much cash in it. Then again, people invest so much cash in old cars to hotrod'em... at least hotrod cars deliver what you soup them up for... a PPCed Amiga delivers very little in comparison

Bamiga2002 · 19 April 2005, 17:26

This seems a pointless debate then. It depends on what you use your amiga for. If just old games then no PPC for you. I want to be able to use it for everything possible, including 68k & ppc. And i've always wanted to upgrade & upgrade to have a "better" machine. Oh yes, this is a hobby mostly for me and if one has the dough...

....then let's roll!!

And the pc ports of games work fine Akira. Why do you even say otherwise? Well that i think depends on what you call an accectable framerate/speed right?

alexh · 19 April 2005, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant512

Xbox, mod chip and XBMC. £160. Unbeatable.

You're being robbed. Xbox, soft-mod and XBMC £92!

Shoonay · 19 April 2005, 18:51

Exactly as Bamiga2002 says this should not be taken the way:
"OMFG!!! What have you done?!?!!"

"You've totally ruined Your life!!!"

"Now You're gonna get it..."

...but rather:
"I've got it for nostalgia purposes"

"I wanna test/use it's limits with everything i/it can"

Amiga1992 · 19 April 2005, 21:32

Shoonay, how can you have nostalgia for something you never had and that could hardly generate any nostalgia feelings because of its nature?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamiga2002

And the pc ports of games work fine Akira. Why do you even say otherwise? Well that i think depends on what you call an accectable framerate/speed right?

It surely depends. But that aside, who wants to play crap PC games 4 years after they were released in PC? Not me, really.

I suppose it's a matter of what you want to do with your money and machine, personally I have almost maxed out my Amiga having in mind MY specs and I think I utilize it much beter than other ocmpters in the house. No, I don't do internet with it and I'm not interested in doing so. No, I don't watch divx films with it but I can play mods perfectly, unlike with the PC. No, I don't use some crap Photoshop wannabe, but I create work which I utilize in my professional life with tools unrivaled in other platforms, like Deluxe Paint. And all the money I'm saving is spent in a pro box like a minimac.

Shoonay · 19 April 2005, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Shoonay, how can you have nostalgia for something you never had and that could hardly generate any nostalgia feelings because of its nature?

I know. Many users = many different opinions.

My most important point is, that this "just is" something for the Amiga.

I never had it, never got the cash to get it for, but i've read about in ALL Amiga mags back in the days, so it's just like seeing that OMFG! game in a magazine and couldn't get it, couse of (choose thy own)...

If i would one day saw my Amy being top-upgraded, i'd really go for the PPC just for the "wanna-have couse it's there" meaning...

manicx · 20 April 2005, 08:30

The Amiga mags back then were desperate and used to rate everything extremely high. The day I saw PPC on the Amiga and the way Heretic 2 run on it, I decided I am happy with my A4000.

keropi · 20 April 2005, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by manicx

The Amiga mags back then were desperate and used to rate everything extremely high. The day I saw PPC on the Amiga and the way Heretic 2 run on it, I decided I am happy with my A4000.

LOL, it is terrible....

Amigamancer · 20 April 2005, 21:17

It's that slow, eh? How many fps are you getting?

21 April 2005, 00:14

I'm totally with you keropi. I was a PPC/Bvision "user" but the board was not really of any "use" to me. Bvision was nice but I sold them both anyway. Give me a desktop 030/50 + a PC for serious stuff anytime.

keropi · 21 April 2005, 07:26

something like 20-25 fps.... lameeeee

I bet pxscroll knows what I'm talking about

manicx · 21 April 2005, 08:40

20-25 frames the max. There are places in the game where the frame rate falls to 12-13 fps. Wait to see that in full glory. The only way to play this at a decent fps is to use low res.

19 April 2005, 09:44	#1
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	For those interested in joining the PPC world... OK, I have finally decided to write this, based on my OWN personnal experience, and I will state my OWN personnal thoughts/conclutions... After some hunting on ebay and other sources, I have managed to buy a BPPC 060/60 603/200 with a complete g-rex package, to replace my 1260/50 with a zorroII piccoloSD64... after setting everything up, did it really worth all the money/trouble? NO. and why? 1. I am just a gamer that likes retrogaming, and frankly all the PPC games I have tried SUCK... I will not try to mention the miserable framerates of quake/quake2/heretic2... 2. The switch of AGA/Voodoo3 just suck.... I am oblidged to use a manual external video switch, which also adds quality loss.... no more auto-switching between modes like the piccoloSD64 did... 3. The stability of ppc apps is questionable, just like their quality and quantity... I had various crashes with quake/quake2, and yes, the card is not overheating and the psu is more than enough... 4. It must now take ~35 seconds for the amiga to boot because of all the soft-resets the ppc/os3,9 patches make... no more 10sec uptime... Frankly, the only perfomance boost I saw was because of the 68060 being at 60mhz, which is a lot faster than the 50mhz on my previous 1260... Maybe I have not tried the right apps or something, but I doubt it would make a big difference... And I am writting all these, not to discourage anyone to enter the ppc world, but to warn retro-gamers as my self before they go spent their money... ppc hardware will not suddenly make the amiga perfom wonders... stick to a 060 with a zorro rtg... I wonder what other ppc users have to say... remember to be honest for me, ppc is not what I expected it to be... Excuse any errors I made, I have a lot in mind right now...

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19 April 2005, 10:13	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	I dont know if you ever watch movies on your Amiga, but DivX / XviD playback must only be possible with PPC version of players? I doubt the 060@66 is upto the job? PPC versions of Emulators such as Gameboy, GBA, Megadrive(Genesis), Snes etc. must all be better? If you are a retrogamer this must be good? As for the switching... can you not get a program to switch off one of the outputs and then the Monitor will switch for you?( If you have a dual input monitor like me)

19 April 2005, 11:16	#3
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 991	Keropi, you briefly explained why I can't be bothered spending so much money for all this PPC stuff. If you want to play movies and/or make a small mm box (including emus), buy a mac mini for the same if not less money that this old and crappy PPC hardware and you are done. I am happy with my 68040 Amiga. I can do everything I want like use Art Effect, Brilliance and Image FX and play my favourite games without crashes.

19 April 2005, 12:30	#5
Slayer Amiga Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 56 Posts: 695	give it a rest people... stop banging the drum :P I use my PPC every day, infact it's running now... it's great for watching divx5 and also compiling PPC native and cross compiling for m68k... ffmpeg converts things just fine, there are many other warpos tools if you look for them etc and also learn to compile etc when I get my A1 which should be shortly I will use that to compile for the m68k too... I just picked up my 5th A4000 tonight and what a beauty... I love those redneck users who store things away perfectly and you'd swear it came off the assembly line... 040 fastlane and opal vision card to boot... just remember... the aging ppc is just like any other machine it'll do upto whatever it was supposed to do at the time... no machine is future proof...

19 April 2005, 12:50	#6
AMIGAZ Amiga-Mad Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 46 Posts: 1,286	Websurfing is faster with PPC if you install WarpDT for image loading. Haven't recieved any of my PPC boards yet. One is from Amiga Superbit and one is broken which I'll send for repair, bought it for just 60 euro (CS PPC 233mhz/'060@60mhz)

19 April 2005, 15:33	#7
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Keropi, with my setup i'm happy with Quake 2 frames-per-second (PPC-BVision, no G-Rex/Mediator..). It plays well, i just wonder how in YOUR setup you say it's slow? I thought a Voodoo 3 card should be some 2-3 times faster than BVision...i'm not sure though. As with me, some things have been difficult after the switch from 1260/AGA to PPC/BVision, BUT after the cooling/memory issues and other patch/driver things have been taken care of, i have in my hands a very nice system. Compatibility may be an issue once in a while but i've gotten over most of them using extra tools. I'd never go back to 1260/AGA, but if i had money, i could use it as a second machine. Altough i'd rather get me a 1230 instead 'cause of it's compatibility with WHDLoad and older software.

19 April 2005, 16:22	#9
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Right said, my friend keropi. Too sad to see you wasted that much cash in such a setup when you could have invested it in something much better and productive. Fact is that most applications, if not all, done for it, are of unparalleled amateurish quality, and perform as so. So it's pointless to invest in a PPC board to run homebrew software which is flaky. Games are old PC ports which run like shit. What's the deal? Yes you can browse the web and stuff, but that is all? I can understand the use of it as a hobby computer but I don't know if it is worth to invest so much cash in it. Then again, people invest so much cash in old cars to hotrod'em... at least hotrod cars deliver what you soup them up for... a PPCed Amiga delivers very little in comparison

19 April 2005, 17:26	#10
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	This seems a pointless debate then. It depends on what you use your amiga for. If just old games then no PPC for you. I want to be able to use it for everything possible, including 68k & ppc. And i've always wanted to upgrade & upgrade to have a "better" machine. Oh yes, this is a hobby mostly for me and if one has the dough... ....then let's roll!! And the pc ports of games work fine Akira. Why do you even say otherwise? Well that i think depends on what you call an accectable framerate/speed right?

19 April 2005, 18:51	#12
Shoonay Global Caturator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Porando Age: 43 Posts: 6,105	Exactly as Bamiga2002 says this should not be taken the way: "OMFG!!! What have you done?!?!!" "You've totally ruined Your life!!!" "Now You're gonna get it..." ...but rather: "I've got it for nostalgia purposes" "I wanna test/use it's limits with everything i/it can"

20 April 2005, 08:30	#15
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 991	The Amiga mags back then were desperate and used to rate everything extremely high. The day I saw PPC on the Amiga and the way Heretic 2 run on it, I decided I am happy with my A4000.

20 April 2005, 21:17	#17
Amigamancer Zone Friend Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Alpha centauri Posts: 95	It's that slow, eh? How many fps are you getting?

21 April 2005, 00:14	#18
oldpx Posts: n/a	I'm totally with you keropi. I was a PPC/Bvision "user" but the board was not really of any "use" to me. Bvision was nice but I sold them both anyway. Give me a desktop 030/50 + a PC for serious stuff anytime.

21 April 2005, 07:26	#19
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	something like 20-25 fps.... lameeeee I bet pxscroll knows what I'm talking about

21 April 2005, 08:40	#20
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 991	20-25 frames the max. There are places in the game where the frame rate falls to 12-13 fps. Wait to see that in full glory. The only way to play this at a decent fps is to use low res.

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