English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Nostalgia & memories

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 09 January 2020, 11:45   #61
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,898
The only strength the MD has over the A1200 is its sprite system, which was always the weakest aspect of the Amiga, to be honest. But 256 colours out of a palette of 16,777,216 (A1200) vs 64 colours out of a palette of 512 (MD)? Don't make me laugh.

Even the SNES doesn't fare much better, although it too has an advanced sprite system. But 256 colours out of 32,768 (SNES) is a fair improvement on OCS/ECS.
Foebane is offline  
Old 09 January 2020, 11:50   #62
jizmo
Registered Abuser

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Valencia / Spain
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
I want to remember the obvious, which is that, despite we are talking about games, the megadrive was a console while the a1200 was a computer, therefore could have all productive software we need beside games, which make for me the a1200 win
This. These aren't valid comparisons in any way since I never bought Amiga as a gaming device, it just happened to be a pretty neat gaming machine on the side. If I was purely interested in gaming, I might've chosen Megadrive – but that's debatable.

When it comes to gaming, to me the biggest difference between the systems is the controller: joystic vs controller vs mouse.

I always preferred controllers over joysticks, so Megadrive wins there in games that gain from having dedicated buttons for dedicated actions. But on Amiga I enjoyed mouse based games (Syndicate, Civilization, Colonization, Monkey Island, Indy, Lemmings, UFO, Dune 2, Cannon Fodder) the most, and those don't either exist on Megadrive, or if they do, they suffer considerably due to inferior controls.
jizmo is offline  
Old 09 January 2020, 11:53   #63
Steril707
Tigerskunk!

Steril707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
. But 256 colours out of 32,768 (SNES) is a fair improvement on OCS/ECS.
To be honest, though, those 8 bitplane modes only ever make sense with static pictures displayed.
Steril707 is offline  
Old 09 January 2020, 11:55   #64
gimbal
cheeky scoundrel

gimbal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands
Age: 38
Posts: 3,515
I am going to go with the Mega Drive.

Shock, horror.

The software library is what counts for me, if I don't count the array of games that were made for an A500 but also run on an A1200.
gimbal is offline  
Old 09 January 2020, 12:31   #65
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen M View Post
I think we agree on most points.
Yes, I think we do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
To be honest, though, those 8 bitplane modes only ever make sense with static pictures displayed.
In all honesty, I'd say that depends a bit on what you'd consider acceptable for use in games. A rough back of the envelope calculation suggests to me that lores 320x256x8 on the A1200 ought to be similar in overall performance to 320x256x5 on the A500, all things considered.

Which is, naturally, quite a way of from the MD. But plenty of A500 games ran in 32 colours so perhaps it's still 'ok'?

(I'm not going to put those numbers here BTW, this is not a tech thread. If anyone wants them, I'm happy to PM them or start a new thread)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal View Post
The software library is what counts for me, if I don't count the array of games that were made for an A500 but also run on an A1200.
Now, I wouldn't look at a system like that because I'd consider the library as a whole, but that's an interesting perspective. I'd actually agree there's a shortage of good AGA games. It's not that they don't exist (and we recently got some very nice additions), but there's far fewer of them than A500 games.

Then again, many of the A500 games I loved ran a good deal better on the A1200. Dune 2 was transformed from borderline unplayable to quite good fun for instance. Same with Frontier and several others. Even Civilization became a much more fun game to me because it ran better and didn't do all the weird "out of memory" stuff it did on my A500. I guess it also depends on which games you'd want to play then as some games fail to run altogether without patches and/or WHDLoad.
roondar is online now  
Old 09 January 2020, 12:43   #66
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen M View Post
Amiga port may sound better but its controls are hampered with the single button input and the parallax scrolling is missing on the background.
Ignoring any other aspects, the Amiga version of Aladdin had support for 2-button controllers, as did a good few of the later games. Sadly still not enough, and still no support of CD32 pads, but at the time they were even less common (and weren't even available when Aladdin was released IIRC).

Last edited by Daedalus; 09 January 2020 at 12:54.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 09 January 2020, 18:21   #67
Phantasm
Not a Rebel anymore
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 290
surely if you are saying 'as a games machine' then what it was capable of doing isn't really relevant, more important what was actually achieved. I would suggest that the MD was better if you wanted arcade conversions and action games. The Amiga 1200 was better if you were more interested in strategy games, 3d games or anything mouse controlled.

So the answer is that there is no clear winner.
Phantasm is offline  
Old 13 January 2020, 20:24   #68
redblade
Zone Friend

redblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Middle Earth
Age: 35
Posts: 1,403
[ Show youtube player ]

Batman vs Robin on the Mega drive. I wonder what software Jesper K used to produce the music and if they were released as demo products on the Amiga.

Static overscan background.
Checkerboard effect and a EHB madhatter on the checkerboard.
Big Sprite of a hat moving across the screen and some scaled sprites.
redblade is offline  
Old 13 January 2020, 21:51   #69
dreadnought
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Ur, Atlantis
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
surely if you are saying 'as a games machine' then what it was capable of doing isn't really relevant, more important what was actually achieved. I would suggest that the MD was better if you wanted arcade conversions and action games. The Amiga 1200 was better if you were more interested in strategy games, 3d games or anything mouse controlled.
Agree, computers had no competition when it came to the "serious" games (for that reason + piracy & computing stuff, they were my only interest back then). But there's no doubt MD or SNES were much better options for twitch gaming than A1200 or PC.

On the other hand, if I had a choice in 1992 (I was stuck with no money and A500 back then) I'd go straight for a 386 PC over A1200. 1992 was the year when PC gaming really took off and left Amiga in the dust. A1200 was thus a machine for either fx people or real Amiga enthusiasts. So in an utopian scenario, in which I'm not a broke-ass teen but somebody with real income, I'd get a 386 and perhaps SNES/MD to scratch the arcade itch.
dreadnought is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 11:12   #70
Steril707
Tigerskunk!

Steril707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
1992 was the year when PC gaming really took off and left Amiga in the dust. A1200 was thus a machine for either fx people or real Amiga enthusiasts. So in an utopian scenario, in which I'm not a broke-ass teen but somebody with real income, I'd get a 386 and perhaps SNES/MD to scratch the arcade itch.
For me that was a painful time. I was really broke, and all my friends who formerly had Amigas went over to buy 386 and then 486 PCs.

I didn't even use my Amiga for much anymore after 1992, but was always envious of my friends who were able to play those great looking games like Ultima6 with 256 colours, Wing Commmander 2 and Privateer.

But spending 2400 Deutsche Marks for a new computer including a new monitor was just too much money for a poor pupil like me.

In summer of 1994 I got myself a SNES, so I could at least play some arcade games like Mortal Kombat 2, Mario World, Yoshis Island, Killer Instinct and Street Fighter.
In late 1995 I finally had enough money to buy myself a Pentium 75 on a sale for 2000 Dm for everything.
Steril707 is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 14:32   #71
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,451
I can't believe this thread even exists.

Look up Thunder Force IV, MUSHA, or any of the other good MD shooters. A 1200 couldn't imagine running these games in it's wildest dreams.

This will be a very unpopular opinion, but I also believe the YM + PSG combo whips Paula's ass. No "choose sound or music" bullshit on the Sega.

We all love the Amiga, but let's not give it credit where it's not deserved. Even a SMS or NES was a superior gaming system.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 14:44   #72
Steril707
Tigerskunk!

Steril707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I can't believe this thread even exists.
And yet here it is..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Look up Thunder Force IV, MUSHA, or any of the other good MD shooters. A 1200 couldn't imagine running these games in it's wildest dreams.
What exactly makes you think that this is the case?
I'd like to have some technical explanation. Since I don't really see anything that a A1200 could not handle in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
This will be a very unpopular opinion, but I also believe the YM + PSG combo whips Paula's ass. No "choose sound or music" bullshit on the Sega.
Paula is as good as how much ChipRAM you give her.
With a couple of hundred KBs of RAM you can do some very professional level sounding music that will sound better than what you usually get on the MD. And you have that amount of space on the A1200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
We all love the Amiga, but let's not give it credit where it's not deserved. Even a SMS or NES was a superior gaming system.
Now you are talking insane bullshit.
In no way a NES or SMS is competitive to a A1200.
Steril707 is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 15:14   #73
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I can't believe this thread even exists.
That is only because you limit "gaming" to mean "action gaming". There's more than just 2D action games such as shoot-em-ups, platformers, etc. If you actually would broaden your horizon to include all genres and rate them all equally, it suddenly becomes a lot less clear cut.

And just to be clear: for the 2D action genres you are correct, the MD is normally the better option for those. Obviously not nearly as much as you make it out to be, but still correct.
Quote:
Look up Thunder Force IV, MUSHA, or any of the other good MD shooters. A 1200 couldn't imagine running these games in it's wildest dreams.
The MD won't be running Eye of the Beholder AGA or UFO Enemy Unknown any time soon (and certainly not without significant cutbacks). Those by themselves are IMHO better games than the games you mentioned here

Edit: there is obviously the Sega CD version of Eye of the Beholder and that precisely proves my point. It has worse graphics than the A500 version and requires an expensive add-on to even run at that low standard.

Last edited by roondar; 14 January 2020 at 16:22. Reason: Fixed a sentence
roondar is online now  
Old 14 January 2020, 15:23   #74
sokolovic
Registered User

sokolovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Marseille / France
Posts: 241
Mega Turrican is slightly better, not very much, thant Turrican 3, yet this former one runs on any Amiga with 512kb chip ram (and is a port of the MD version, developped with the MD in mind, not the Amiga). It seems very difficult to imagine that an AGA version of Turrican, won't match easily the MD one. Same thing for games like Mortal Kombat 1 & 2.

Worms DC litteraly cruch the MD version, published in the last years of commercial life of the MD, at a time the console was supposely well mastered.

Oh, I forgot, there is quite a few games that have both SFX and Music in game. It's a bit strange to apply music OR SFX to every Amiga game. (And you can prefer the MD sound, why not, it isn't my case when I'm listening Cannon Fodder opening on both machines... Yet this is a personnal opinion, not an unpopular one.)

Last edited by sokolovic; 14 January 2020 at 15:50.
sokolovic is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 15:36   #75
Lord Aga
MI clan prevails

Lord Aga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 1,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
The MD won't be running Eye of the Beholder AGA or UFO Enemy Unknown any time soon (and certainly not without significant cutbacks). Those by themselves are IMHO better games than the games you mentioned here
I was just going to mention UFO, you beat me to it The AGA version is gorgeous and marvelously complex. I could also add Sabre Team. Similar mechanics, although UFO stays in a class on its own above.

So no, Sega's Blastmindfuckzaxxor Z being an awesome game on its own doesn't prove anything. It's more of a what genre are you in for. If Blastmindfuckzaxxor Z is your thing, then sure, Sega wins for you. But when you think about different types of games, Amiga kinda starts taking the lead.
Lord Aga is online now  
Old 14 January 2020, 16:49   #76
blade002
Zone Friend
blade002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 45
Posts: 2,526
I don't think the A1200 got enough AGA support from publishers that were willing to push it to the brink as the A500 was by the time Commodore went bankrupt.

Yes there are many in this thread far more technically minded than me that know the ins and outs of the Amiga hardware that can paint a clearer picture.

But the A1200 barely got out of gate.
blade002 is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 17:18   #77
dreadnought
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Ur, Atlantis
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
For me that was a painful time. I was really broke, and all my friends who formerly had Amigas went over to buy 386 and then 486 PCs.
Tell me about it. I ended up stuck with Amiga up till 1997. Then my gf's dad got her a Pentium 60 and I could at least play some of the games, but only got my own Celeron 333 in 1998.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
If Blastmindfuckzaxxor Z is your thing, then sure, Sega wins for you. But when you think about different types of games, Amiga kinda starts taking the lead.
That's only partially true, because 16 bit consoles also had a great library of non-twitch games. There were heaps of not only high quality JRPGs but also strategy games (SNES Civ port is quite brilliant), sims and CRPG ports. Sure, Amiga was still better for these genres, but only just. Besides, it was all about PC when 1200 was released.
dreadnought is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 17:31   #78
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
That's only partially true, because 16 bit consoles also had a great library of non-twitch games. There were heaps of not only high quality JRPGs but also strategy games (SNES Civ port is quite brilliant), sims and CRPG ports. Sure, Amiga was still better for these genres, but only just.
They had a very, very small library of non-twitch games compared to the Amiga and missed out on tons of deep and great strategy and simulation games as a result (actually not just those genres, they're just what I liked to play). There is really no comparison here, the Amiga is a vastly better system than either of the popular 16 bit consoles if you primarily like these games.

Furthermore, for the few games that did appear on both platforms, the Amiga versions (already for OCS, but more so for AGA versions) were almost universally clearly better games.

Oh and... SNES games don't count in an Amiga vs Mega Drive comparison so, err why are you talking about them exactly?
Quote:
Besides, it was all about PC when 1200 was released.
In a discussion comparing the Mega Drive to the A1200, the PC is 100% irrelevant
roondar is online now  
Old 14 January 2020, 17:35   #79
Steril707
Tigerskunk!

Steril707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amiga Island
Posts: 1,167
I'd say, if we really compare the A1200 to the Megadrive, it is really almost on even terms.
I'd wager that most of the action games I have seen on the MD could be replicated with the A1200s capabilites.

The SNES is a much more difficult case, though.
But even here, I think you could go a long way with the Vanilla A1200, getting almost up to there with some clever coding.
Steril707 is offline  
Old 14 January 2020, 18:10   #80
sokolovic
Registered User

sokolovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Marseille / France
Posts: 241
It seems that for some people, the A1200 is just an A500 with a bit more colours capacities

This could be strengthened by the fact that most A1200 games are just ECS ones with an extra parallax or some extra colours but still are made to run on a 1mb/ 68000 A500 at first (AGA version being a quick port, sometimes even barely enhanced).
sokolovic is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sega Megadrive official 6 Button Pad on CD32/A1200?!? Ebster support.Hardware 57 01 November 2019 15:34
Sega Megadrive Scene Collection jarre Collections 47 18 June 2019 20:37
Sega Megadrive 'Seegah' sample Amigajay request.Modules 5 27 October 2018 06:39
Sega Megadrive - which version to get? moijk Retrogaming General Discussion 13 30 May 2011 12:42
Games that are better/worse on the Sega MegaDrive. drHirudo Retrogaming General Discussion 41 26 November 2008 20:55

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09623 seconds with 16 queries