AmigaOS on x86 project: Linux help needed

[Charlie]

I did a daft thing:
I kind-of committed myself to a project that will require getting my hands dirty in ( I hope ) a little Linux.

-got to be careful here, don't want to offend any Linux fans on the board as I'm hoping for some tips-

Can anyone point me in the direction of some intelligible setup guides?

I basically want to end up with a minimal Linux using the framebuffer-fbdev ( NO X ) that will auto-start using Grub from a compressed image and run from RAM.
To this I'm hoping to add E-UAE ( what else? ) that I'll then configure to use a virtual Amiga HDD partition ( type &76 ).

To explain:
I'm not a fan of Linux. The main reason for this is that I find the 'help' to be no help at all!
All the Linux docs I've ever read seem to forget their fundamental purpose: 'To explain' - If the person ( me ) knew the answer, ( or even where to begin ) they wouldn't have to ask.
Also I'm somewhat hampered in my understanding as my expectations of how an OS should work are a million miles away from the 'fundamental concepts' Linux is based on. ( Not Linux fault! )

I've seen a few 'simple guides' setting out how to achieve what I'm after - they all leave me completely lost... Too many assumptions, too much unexplained Linux-speak.

To me DSL ( Damn Small Linux ) is the ideal candidate as I can do the above while retaining wide compatibility - unlike a Gentoo install.

So what's the goal?
-A stand-alone Amiga environment that will run on most x86 boxes.
-Simple(ish) to set up:
A partition into which you put the system files.
An &76 partition that will serve as an Amiga HDD.
-Allow you to boot into the above ( Grub ) without seeing any other OS.
-Beyond adding a kickstart and installing AmigaOS - NO SETUP REQUIRED.

In short what Amithlon should be.

HELP PLEASE!

[turrican3]

i want to see the same thing than you but i know nothing about linux than, i can't help.
I wish the best for your goal.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Charlie

I did a daft thing:
I kind-of committed myself to a project that will require getting my hands dirty in ( I hope ) a little Linux.

-got to be careful here, don't want to offend any Linux fans on the board as I'm hoping for some tips-

Can anyone point me in the direction of some intelligible setup guides?

I basically want to end up with a minimal Linux using the framebuffer-fbdev ( NO X ) that will auto-start using Grub from a compressed image and run from RAM.
To this I'm hoping to add E-UAE ( what else? ) that I'll then configure to use a virtual Amiga HDD partition ( type &76 ).

To explain:
I'm not a fan of Linux. The main reason for this is that I find the 'help' to be no help at all!
All the Linux docs I've ever read seem to forget their fundamental purpose: 'To explain' - If the person ( me ) knew the answer, ( or even where to begin ) they wouldn't have to ask.
Also I'm somewhat hampered in my understanding as my expectations of how an OS should work are a million miles away from the 'fundamental concepts' Linux is based on. ( Not Linux fault! )

I've seen a few 'simple guides' setting out how to achieve what I'm after - they all leave me completely lost... Too many assumptions, too much unexplained Linux-speak.

To me DSL ( Damn Small Linux ) is the ideal candidate as I can do the above while retaining wide compatibility - unlike a Gentoo install.

So what's the goal?
-A stand-alone Amiga environment that will run on most x86 boxes.
-Simple(ish) to set up:
A partition into which you put the system files.
An &76 partition that will serve as an Amiga HDD.
-Allow you to boot into the above ( Grub ) without seeing any other OS.
-Beyond adding a kickstart and installing AmigaOS - NO SETUP REQUIRED.

In short what Amithlon should be.

HELP PLEASE!

I use Linux although i cant help with your specific issue in regards to grub, but if there is anything else i can help you with, let me know.

And yes i COMPLETELY agree with everything you have said about Linux. Try getting some help from a Linux forum too, although you will find yourself wanting to punch someone from the forum in head due to the frustration they cause by telling you that you should do the proper research to figure the problem out for yourself, despite the fact youve just spent the last 12 hours or 2 weeks solid TRYING TO DO EXACTLY THAT !!!! ( they are quite the assuming bunch, but they arent "all" bad, only about 90% of them piss people off )

From my experience, Linux users and PC users are one of the same, but every bit of experience i ever had from an Amiga user over my 17 long years with Amiga's is that the average Amiga user is more than happy to help and not act like a complete arse if you dont know something.

Here's hoping the users on those forums pull their pompous self important heads out of their arses and wake up to themselves, and that also goes for the dickheads writing Linux guides.

[Charlie]

No... sorry.
After hours and hours of literally screaming & shouting over the last few days at the mindlessly inconsistent nonsence that is GNU-Linux...
...I have one again learned my lesson:

I'd rather have my toe nails pulled out! ( There's better things to do with a long weekend... )

I don't know what it is - I just don't get Linux at all!
( Not helped by the total lack of: 'this is how you do it' and more importantly: 'this is why you do it' documentation - free of assumptions! )

I suspect what I'm trying to achieve would be about 90mins work for someone who could make some sence of this 'OS'.

FWIW: ( In case anyone agrees this is a good idea & wants to do... )
The Plan
A self-contained Amiga enviroment that can be easily copied to most x86 PC's and work with the MINIMUM of set up.
ie: Two partitions needed + a way to boot it ( Grub? )
1st Partition: The system files
2nd Partition: A virtual Amiga RDB drive ( Type &76 )

Details:
The system files:
-Stripped out Linux using the FB device for output - DSL would seem to be ideal for this as it's very small and widely compatible.
( I looked at Gentoo but small installs seem to be hardware-specific, so defeating the point of doing this. )
Also suggest using uclibc rather than glibc for the sake of size.
-To this add a pre-setup E-UAE.
-The whole lot should 'auto-boot' to the Amiga enviroment without any need to log-in or use passwords.
( This is a one-purpose job, so does not need any accounts / security / setup options )
-My initial calculations suggest all this can be done within 10-15 mb!
( We are talking the bare requirements to get E-UAE running )
-For preference all contianed on a Fat32 partition to allow widest easy access to these files.
( A kickstart will need to be added by the user - explore2fs.exe is one way Windoze users could access ext2fs if Fat32 is not an option )
-It could even have a fancy Amiga 'boot-logo' to hide the Linux command-line.

E-UAE:
-I'd suggest initial set-up as as a 'high-end' AGA / RTG Amiga.
-Out of the box:
Floppy access
CD/DVD access
Access to the Virtual RDB HDD
Most importantly a mount to the Linux directory containing E-UAE and its files. This would allow access to Kickstart & E-UAE's .config file(s) from within AmigaOS.

This would allow a simple(ish) setup process:
-Download the Sys-partition image.
-Download bootmanager with detailed setup guide ( optional, Grub? )
-Copy Sys-partition to own HDD.
-Make &76 partiton of user's preferred size.
-Set boot-manager to point to the Sys-partition.
-Copy kickstart to carefully documented location on Sys-partition.
-Install AmigaOS in whatever manner seems appropriate to the user:
...Copy current (Win)UAE setup.
...Fresh install to 'new Amiga'
...Maybe pre-rolled WB on an optional &76 image - Am I correct in thinking 3.0 is up for free distribution?

You then have a 'full-Amiga' on your x86 box - either to dual-boot or even a dedicated system. Free of all the usual gubbins that encumbers the wonderful WinUAE or E-UAE.
I would expect such a setup would run much like a ( slightly slow ) Amithlon, but with the bonus of chipset emulation and wider x86-box support.
With care I suspect it would 'feel' like a fast Amiga ( as Amithlon does ) rather than an emulation. ( as WinUAE / E-UAE do - on top of their OS's )

So, what do you think?
I know there are plenty of clever Linux fans on the EAB.
This whole thing should be ridiculously simple for anyone who knows Linux and want's to give it a go.
For myself it's obvious I'll never get past the planning stage:
Life's too short, it's making me too bad-tempered, and I don't want to find myself in prison for having vented my spleen on my computer followed by my hapless family!

Go on... you know you want to...

[Charlie]

@blade002:
Thanks for the reply & the kind offer of help.
( I think we must have been posting at the same time. )

Sad to say I think my last post says it all. ( at least from my perspective ). I've been trying to get to grips with Linux literally for years, with little sucess.

The really frustrating part is my belief that this 'project' would be an absolute doddle if I had even a rudimentary understainding of Linux!

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Charlie

@blade002:
Thanks for the reply & the kind offer of help.
( I think we must have been posting at the same time. )

Sad to say I think my last post says it all. ( at least from my perspective ). I've been trying to get to grips with Linux literally for years, with little sucess.

The really frustrating part is my belief that this 'project' would be an absolute doddle if I had even a rudimentary understainding of Linux!

Hey im hearing ya brother !!. There is so many assumptions made when trying to learn linux from the people who are trying to tell you how to use it, and YEP!!! "how to do it" is normally not even part of the equation. I was trying to do something as simple as install "Smart Update" 3 weeks ago, and i spent 12 hours one saturday and about 2 hours every night trying to figure out why the cache wouldnt update.

I went to numerous sites, asks numerous questions, went right into the console, and i think i tried EVERYTHING, and everytime someone sent me a link that gives me a full run down as to how its done properly, i ended up seeing the exact same guide that i used to begin with and that guide got to a point where, where i was stuck was NOT EXPLAINED AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... and whatever it did say was about as clear AS MUD and didnt tell me HOW to do it !!.


Im thinking now that i may need to do my 6th reinstall of Linux to get this thing working!!!.. The Amiga OS was absolutely BRILLIANT !!!!!!..... Linux really IS painful at the best of times.

( LOL.. yeah we must have been typing at the same time, i saw your post and thought, wow this guy can really type fast typing all that and responding that quickly, but soon realised otherwise of course )

[alexh]

Someone has already done this project, I've read it somewhere this week.

[Bloodwych]

There is a guide over at amiga.org:

http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/v...36486&forum=18

Don't know if it's any use. #

EDIT - also found these:

http://xamiga.net/about_iframe.html

http://nebudom.homeunix.org/amiga/

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=18010

[Charlie]

Thanks for the replies chaps -
'knew I couldn't be the only one to try this.
( or at least a 'boxed' verion that wouldn't need a black-belt in Linux to set up )

@Bloodwych:
Thanks for the links.
I at least spotted your first link while researching - tried to follow it, left me 'all at sea'.
It's a good example of what really annoys me about the Linux scene:
Here's someone who has gone to the trouble of trying to be helpful to noobs - Far more help than you usually get from the Linux community TBH.
But if I understood the detail that has been omitted from this guide I'd already know enough Linux to do it myself without help! *

The other links look rather hopeful:
X-Amiga - I await the downloads with interest - good to see a proper guide included. I had discounted Gentoo as it seems to build to the hardware it's installed on. But the inclusion of an installer is a neat / friendly way round that.

AmigaSYS Live - Also looks intersting ( esp as built on DSL which to me seems the best option ) I think I may have a close look @ that & see if I have enough knowledge to hack it to my purposes.
->113mb seems a bit on the large side - I suspect because based on X rather than 'just' the FB device.

Again, thanks for the replies & sorry if any 'hash' comments have got up the Linux-fans noses.

( Maybe I won't give up just yet! ) - Still think the concept as I've suggested is the best one.
But then I would say that, wouldn't I?

*On positive side the author does mention they think their guide is 'too complicated' & an update is on way - I can only assume such a helpful attitude shows them to be a long-time Amiga user.

[alexh]

Nah, this is what I was thinking of

http://www.amigaforever.com/kxlight/

[Charlie]

Thanks alexh:

Yep - got AF & KX-Light.
It's v. nice ( gave me the idea in the first place )
Call me fussy, but a bit too bloated / slow for me!

My main complaint of emulators ( Apart from Amithlon and AmigaXL ) is they don't behave like 'real' Amiga hardware - I'm sure you know what I mean.
My belief is this is nothing to do with the authors of WinUAE etc ( wonderful work ) but the 'action' of the underlaying OS.

My hope is that's why KX 'feels' like an emulator - there's too much going on underneath.
Therefore cut out everything not needed to get E-UAE working ( esp X ) and hey-presto: New Amithlon! ( sort-of )

*EDIT*
Hmmm, X-Amiga... the more I look the more it's very close to what I want.
12mb install with nice setup - Why try to re-invent the wheel?

Thanks for the helpful comments, I think at this point I'll give up on the idea in favour of something that ( when released ) is likely to be far better.
( Back to the Amithlon guide )