Back2Roots.org gone?

[SunChild]

Not sure what you meant there. BTTR only contained legal stuff. Hosting an unofficial mirror of legal stuff would be illegal? And then how would it make it any more legal to share parts of those contents anywhere else anyway?

In any case, I don't see no difference between both solutions. As far as I'm concerned, get the exclusive contents from BTTR back online and available to everyone is all that matters.

C'mon Thalion, you can't expect to come bragging here about having a full mirror of an extensive Amiga resource that just went dead... I can't believe the point was just to make everyone else pissed and envious?
Would it be that tough to find a way to share that? (Be it only so you too have someone else to turn to whenever your HDD containing this backup mirror DIES OUT on you -- which _WILL_ happen at some point as you're well aware, right?)

[ptyerman]

Because the rights to host the software on BTTR belong to BTTR only! Anyone else that puts that software up for download must apply to the respective authors for the right to do so. PD and shareware excluded.

[amiga_Forever]

I think BTTR knew what they were doing... Hear me out here...

BTTR do a site everyone would love.. lots of great games/demos/legal stuff etc....... (basically BTTR would grab all the fish (aka "us users")

Either accident, or deliberate... (doesn't really matter), BTTR go offline, and never come back...

Outcome? By leaving up the site, but taking down where the files are hosted, users only would crave for this, but cannot get at any. And since the site is locked to redirecting to BTTR, and only them since they also conveniently host legal stuff, the balls in their court, and no one can do anything about it without them.

No one else can host it, without the proper licenses/permission, must be new domain.

So, as a result??, I think BTTR knew exactly what they were doing.... Otherwise there would be constant contact.. Or at the very least their blog would have been kept up-to-date.

Ingenious....... Because its working... All that juicy content just makes me foam at the mouth

Again, this is a long shot, but i'll just stick it out there, coz it IS possible.

Just like for example how people would shut down a forum for example because they the mods don't want to hear the stuff from their users. But that did happen to some site... (can't remember which one)

[SunChild]

What you're getting at with it?
Like, BTTR staff are gonna come back with a paying version of their website?
Which's a totally ridiculous idea obviously, yet apart from that I really don't see what they would benefit in your scenario...?

@ptyerman: Yeah, I realised after posting that allowance to distribute was granted to BTTR only (another ridiculous system by the way -- who cares WHERE people get this stuff from really, it's either freeware or it's not).
Which doesn't answer my second question regarding Korodny's comment that "it would make more sense to transfer the unique parts of BTTR to existing offerings" though (would be just as illegal, so how does that make more sense anyway?)

All in all, I find Hippie2000 and the BTTR people a bit puzzling: dedicating so much energy and time for so many years, just to disappear this suddenly without neither warning nor comments, explanations, and above all not any proper and serious attempt at fixing the issue and trying to come back online (loosing their host certainly doesn't qualify as good enough an excuse for that!!).
Might indicate they realised with this issue that they just haven't got the will to keep it alive anymore (which is despicable in my opinion -- when you operate an important resource website to many people and for so long, you have like a moral obligation and responsability towards your users! If you tire of managing it or just don't have the time/energy for it, you either pass the torch to a new site manager or you give all the data to someone willing to continue sharing it!!!)

All that said, I'm gonna PM Thalion soon, seeing as apparently he didn't plan on checking this thread anymore to reply...

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by SunChild

Not sure what you meant there. BTTR only contained legal stuff. Hosting an unofficial mirror of legal stuff would be illegal?

BTTR was 'legal' because it had licenses from copyright owners to offer the software for download. These licenses were BTTR specific, they software hadn't become Freeware just because it was available from BTTR. Nobody else is entitled to host the 'legal' stuff from BTTR on his own server.

And then how would it make it any more legal to share parts of those contents anywhere else anyway?

I wasn't talking about making anything legal - if whatever you do is not legal anyway, don't bother trying to make a copy of BTTR - just add whatever software is missing to TOSEC or some other archive, make the information from the game database available in ASCII/PDF/whatever form and host the WinUAE configuration files somewhere.

I think BTTR knew exactly what they were doing.... Otherwise there would be constant contact.. Or at the very least their blog would have been kept up-to-date.

There's no "they" anymore, and the remaining administrator probably doesn't have as much spare time and motivation as he had 15 years ago. BTTR went dormant for longer periods several times in the past.

This time, the domain seems to be gone, the admin probably just doesn't care enough anymore to fix that.

[Adrian Browne]

Yup, preserve what ever unique software they had at least.

[SunChild]

Originally Posted by Korodny

These licenses were BTTR specific, they software hadn't become Freeware just because it was available from BTTR. Nobody else is entitled to host the 'legal' stuff from BTTR on his own server.

Yup, I got that. As I said, I can't imagine anything dumber than such a moronic rule, "Free to download from WhoeverItIs but still not freeware"... Hahaha, are people really /expected/ to take such laws seriously? What about "You're allowed to download this stuff on the EXCLUSIVE condition that you wear a mustache and bright yellow leotard with red dots and tutu"?
That it is the law doesn't mean shit to me when it's also completely idiotic. My point being: owner agrees his stuff to be freeware or they don't. Trying yo have it half-way like this doesn't make the least bit of fuckin' sense.

I wasn't talking about making anything legal - if whatever you do is not legal anyway, don't bother trying to make a copy of BTTR - just add whatever software is missing to TOSEC or some other archive, make the information from the game database available in ASCII/PDF/whatever form and host the WinUAE configuration files somewhere.

Alright then, put that way I have to agree with you that it would be the best way. But honestly I don't care much about what way it would be made available again, as long that it actually would.

There's no "they" anymore, and the remaining administrator probably doesn't have as much spare time and motivation as he had 15 years ago. BTTR went dormant for longer periods several times in the past. This time, the domain seems to be gone, the admin probably just doesn't care enough anymore to fix that.

Cf. my post above. He's oviously 100% entitled to have lost all motivation towards his site. That still doesn't make it morally right to just give it all up without finding a way to preserve distribution. Even less so considering that stupid law which makes him the only legal distributor of what content BTTR contained -- if anything, that makes Hippie2000 RESPONSIBLE to pass it over to someone who will actually still give a fuck about sharing it with the community! And pardon my french (I am french, after all! I'm expected to be swearing, aren't I? )

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by SunChild

That it is the law doesn't mean shit to me when it's also completely idiotic.

But at the same time, you expect Hippie2000 to obey some obscure rules about responsibilities and moral obligations you just made up?

The guy provided a very good (and free) service to the community for more than a decade, let's cut him some slack. Yeah, the departure could have been handled better - so what. It's 2014, and it's not like it's hard to find whatever Amiga stuff you're looking for. If everything else fails, post a request to EAB and half a day later somebody uploads what you need.

[Bobic]

Hi everyone,

it's nice to hear that BTTR is still in your mind and keep you interested! That feels really great after all those years!

I've founded BTTR back in 1998 together with Hippie2000 and this project was and still is an important part of my life. We spent so much time in that baby... But as most of you might know and might be able to understand, more important things appear in your life when you're getting older (family, building a house, etc. - not enough spare time any more to maintain such a big site). So I had to keep my focus on other things...

Today I visited EAB again and noticed this thread. I didn't know what happened to back2roots.org, so I contacted Hippie2000, who has always been the tech guy in our team. Now I know what's going on and I'm up-to-date again.

What I can say is, that BTTR is still alive. As ADz already mentioned http://back2roots.abime.net/ is the new address. Hippie2000 will also bring everything back online what's currently missing. So stay tuned!

Also I'd like to send greetings over to RCK, Akira and all other old mates! Thanks for your support, your help and nice to see that you're still alive and kicking!

[huepper]

Originally Posted by Bobic

Hi everyone,

it's nice to hear that BTTR is still in your mind and keep you interested! That feels really great after all those years!

I've founded BTTR back in 1998 together with Hippie2000 and this project was and still is an important part of my life. We spent so much time in that baby... But as most of you might know and might be able to understand, more important things appear in your life when you're getting older (family, building a house, etc. - not enough spare time any more to maintain such a big site). So I had to keep my focus on other things...

Today I visited EAB again and noticed this thread. I didn't know what happened to back2roots.org, so I contacted Hippie2000, who has always been the tech guy in our team. Now I know what's going on and I'm up-to-date again.

What I can say is, that BTTR is still alive. As ADz already mentioned http://back2roots.abime.net/ is the new address. Hippie2000 will also bring everything back online what's currently missing. So stay tuned!

Also I'd like to send greetings over to RCK, Akira and all other old mates! Thanks for your support, your help and nice to see that you're still alive and kicking!

Nice to hear from you, thanks for your statement.
We love BTTR!

greetings from Germany

[SunChild]

Originally Posted by Bobic

Hi everyone,

it's nice to hear that BTTR is still in your mind and keep you interested! That feels really great after all those years!
[...]
What I can say is, that BTTR is still alive. As ADz already mentioned http://back2roots.abime.net/ is the new address. Hippie2000 will also bring everything back online what's currently missing. So stay tuned!

Following this great statement, I can only thank you loads Bobic for coming here and reassure us all about BTTR's fate.
As you saw here (and let me tell you a least a dozen other Amiga places around the web reacted in similar ways), YES the Amiga community still cares very much about your baby!! I certainly speak a LOT of people's mind when I say that BTTR is always an important of the current Amiga landscape on the net, and its seeming disappearance could but provoke an emotional response (I particularly speak for myself here! )

Might I add that, should Hippie2000 had taken the time to drop this tiny wee bit of info that he wasn't in fact letting it all down go to the drain without even a look back (like some of us hurried to conclude -- and I'm certainly more guilty than anyone of it), some harsh comments, dicted by frustration and disappointment to see such a precious Amiga resource falling into limbo like so many before it, would have been spared (once again, guilty as charged here).

In my defense, I would say this: like countless others, I'm an ardent and long-time Amiga fan, who still cares much about what is still standing today for me as the greatest micro-comp-... Fuck that: the greatest COMPUTER ever conceived, period.
Of course the Amiga scene is nothing like what it was, but there still IS a scene of sorts. Any sign of that scene (or part of it) being endangered and I draw my claws out! Can't just seem to be ready and let go of my Amiga addiction is my only crime.

Well, in any case your post makes my day, and I can't wait to have the content all back.
So a lot many cheers and hails to you & Hippie2000 + long live BTTR!
-- SunChild

WOW , thats is a GOOD News !


Thanks Bobic and Hippie2000 to put online soon these essential resources !


Best regards

From Argentina

Thierry

[Washac]

Great news indeed

[Washac]

Originally Posted by Sunchild

I'm an ardent and long-time Amiga fan, who still cares much about what is still standing today for me as the greatest micro-comp-... Fuck that: the greatest COMPUTER ever conceived, period.

Have to second this sentiment

[Korodny]

Is anybody able to download anything from there? I only see the advertisements, but the download never starts. Might very well be my (heavily modified) Firefox, just thought I'd ask before I start installing other browsers.

[Retro-Nerd]

I can't download anything, though txt files for e.g. for cheats seems to work.

[Washac]

Originally Posted by Korodny

Is anybody able to download anything from there? I only see the advertisements, but the download never starts. Might very well be my (heavily modified) Firefox, just thought I'd ask before I start installing other browsers.

It does actually say this on the page...............

BTTR is currently work in progess, services are only partially active. Check our Site-Blog for more info!

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by Washac

It does actually say this on the page...............

BTTR is currently work in progess, services are only partially active. Check our Site-Blog for more info!

That message has been there since the last down time, IIRC.

Thanks for confirming it's not just me, guys.

[Washac]

Originally Posted by Korodny

That message has been there since the last down time, IIRC.

Thanks for confirming it's not just me, guys.

Ah, sorry.

[Nekoniaow]

Please spank me hard if I'm wrong but it looks like this situation still isn't resolved right?

It's really a pain because there are millions (well, not really but quite a few) sites in the Amiga community which point to back2roots and of course all fail.
It's as if nobody cared to maintain completely dead links to what's supposed to be a pretty central Amiga data repository. Weird.

What does he need to solve this domain name issue? Domains usually don't cost that much but I could understand why back2roots might be in high demand and thus much more expensive than the average site. I would gladly donate a bit if it could help him get rid of the issue once and for all.

(Also, that person should read their emails more often, letting a domain name expire requires quite some effort given how easy renewal is these days... )

Edit:
No need to spank me guys, I'll do it myself.

I just found I had missed this post:

Originally Posted by Bobic

What I can say is, that BTTR is still alive. As ADz already mentioned http://back2roots.abime.net/ is the new address. Hippie2000 will also bring everything back online what's currently missing. So stay tuned!

However, this doesn't solve the issue that most Amiga related websites still point to the old completely obsolete domain.

A large number of Amiga sites mention back2roots on their pages as a reference so newcomers will be attracted to it only to end up on a completely broken site with no explanations, it's not exactly good publicity.

What can we do to change that?

Edit2
On EAB, the old links could be automatically updated to point to the new site (or some kind of addendum posted: "Admin note: this is a dead link, valid one now is ...").

As for other sites obviously their maintainers should be contacted but frankly if a newbie in the community like me does it the message is bound to be ignored with a "do your homework and go to the new site".

I guess some kind of organized request from EAB could help them understand that dead links are detrimental to Amiga awareness?