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Old 02 February 2020, 17:29   #21
roondar
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Games that require AGA don't necessarily use all 256 colours. ... So, probably not that many that use 256 colours...
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
Probably not, depends if you were just remembering AGA disk games and not Amiga CD as well, then its around 160-180, i forget the exact number when i last checked.
Yeah, AGA doesn't mean using 256 colours by itself (AGA Dual Playfield is a very useful an often used feature). I also understand that there are plenty of CD games, but to my mind those count as part of the question asked here.

Anyway, this thread is suggesting maybe a dozen or so 256 colour AGA games exist and that after looking at hol.abime.net, I'm beginning to think that feels a touch low - considering the total number of games. Of course, I could just be wrong. But by now I'm thinking somewhere between 50 and 100 AGA games running in 256 colours might just be more realistic than so few.
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Old 02 February 2020, 19:00   #22
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Once you get into the age of FPS just using CPU power maybe there are quite a few but before that I.e games for basic A1200/CD32 probably not many, it would probably be slow as hell for a platform game etc.

Last edited by Retro1234; 02 February 2020 at 19:07.
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Old 03 February 2020, 02:21   #23
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Originally Posted by roondar View Post
Yeah, AGA doesn't mean using 256 colours by itself (AGA Dual Playfield is a very useful an often used feature). I also understand that there are plenty of CD games, but to my mind those count as part of the question asked here.

Anyway, this thread is suggesting maybe a dozen or so 256 colour AGA games exist and that after looking at hol.abime.net, I'm beginning to think that feels a touch low - considering the total number of games. Of course, I could just be wrong. But by now I'm thinking somewhere between 50 and 100 AGA games running in 256 colours might just be more realistic than so few.
I'd say at *least* 100 if not more. You can basically divide "AGA" games into 3 camps:

1) Multi-playfield -- used AGA to provide layers of parallax while still having a decent number of colors. This encompasses pretty much all AGA platformers that were bespoke coded for the Amiga. Zool AGA, Flink CD32, etc. Some of these (e.g. Zool) got OCS ports by virtue of just eliminating the parallax background. Some of these don't actually use dual-playfield mode in hardware but instead use the blitter to get multiple playfields by reserving a bitplane or two for some other effect and using the blitter to manipulate it (used on many OCS games too where screen was 16-color but a fifth bitplane was used for effects).

2) Single-playfield -- Most strategy games, adventure games, etc. that are "AGA". They use an actual 8-bit framebuffer. These are "real" 256-color games. Pretty much every game ported from PC to "AGA" falls into this camp, with one or two exceptions.

3) Fake AGA -- A few games that claim to be for AGA but are really OCS/ECS games that just require a lot of chip and/or fast mem, and the developers figured people would be too stupid to know the difference. Examples include Primal Rage and Dungeon Master II.
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Old 03 February 2020, 07:42   #24
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I was thinking for some time about AGA games list since on HoL isn't available strict filter (i mean only AGA games) and additionally using splitting like AmigaHope mentioned (without 3rd group, which is obvious just 2MB Chip RAM OCS/ECS). Maybe some day i'll start proper topic with such list.

And maybe i'll add something like "shame" group, where AGA requirement is senseless. First game for this group is for sure Ali Baba.
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Old 04 February 2020, 03:10   #25
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Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
I was thinking for some time about AGA games list since on HoL isn't available strict filter (i mean only AGA games) and additionally using splitting like AmigaHope mentioned (without 3rd group, which is obvious just 2MB Chip RAM OCS/ECS). Maybe some day i'll start proper topic with such list.

And maybe i'll add something like "shame" group, where AGA requirement is senseless. First game for this group is for sure Ali Baba.
Dear god I'd never seen Ali Baba before now. I wonder what specifically in the game requires AGA. Maybe everything is a sprite, so it needs the AGA larger sprites?
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Old 04 February 2020, 06:10   #26
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What's the highest resolution Descent runs (even if at 1 fps) on a 68060 ?
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Old 04 February 2020, 09:26   #27
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Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
I was thinking for some time about AGA games list since on HoL isn't available strict filter (i mean only AGA games)
http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_ref_hardware=2 (but unfortunately, as pointed out previously, games with duplicate names are included in that list and only RCK can change that by recoding the search filter function)

Quote:
....and additionally using splitting like AmigaHope mentioned (without 3rd group, which is obvious just 2MB Chip RAM OCS/ECS).
Not true. All the "fake" AGA games released commercially (e.g. Jungle Strike) had the AGA identifier removed from their HOL entries some time ago now and also had a note added to indicate that they worked on Amiga OCS/ECS/2MB ram set-ups.

A special "Enhanced" identifier was also added to Jungle Strike at the time by someone on the HOL team which allowed it to be used as a search filter, but the other games (e.g. Primal Rage) were forgotten when their HOL entries were later updated. I've rectified that and you can now filter *all* these games out in a HOL search:

http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_ref_hardware=12

If you or anyone else knows of other "fake" AGA games, then please contact us about them. Thanks!

Last edited by DrBong; 04 February 2020 at 10:12. Reason: Fixed typos + added last sentence!
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Old 04 February 2020, 10:18   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_ref_hardware=2 (but unfortunately, as pointed out previously, games with duplicate names are included in that list and only RCK can change that by recoding the search filter function)
It's not strict filter at all. I was talking about only AGA games or utilising AGA, not AGA/OCS/ECS which is in many cases just AGA compatibility. I mean about ONLY AGA filter (without mentioned combo). Moreover, CD32 games are also AGA or not AGA (just CD compilation of OCS/ECS version).


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
Not true. All the "fake" AGA games released commercially (e.g. Jungle Strike) had the AGA identifier removed from their HOL entries some time ago now and also had a note added to indicate that they worked on an Amiga OCS/ECS/2MB ram set-ups.

A special "Enhanced" identifier was also added to Jungle Strike at the time by someone on the HOL team which allowed it to be used as a search filter, but the other games (e.g. Primal Rage) were forgotten when their HOL entries were later updated. I've now rectified that and you can filter these games out in a HOL search:

http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_ref_hardware=12
What i said (wrote) has nothing to HoL but to real requirements. Game working on ECS with 2MB ChipRAM is not requiring AGA chipset at all, just requires more memory.

Last edited by Solo Kazuki; 04 February 2020 at 10:24.
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Old 04 February 2020, 10:59   #29
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Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
If you or anyone else knows of other "fake" AGA games, then please contact us about them. Thanks!
Wasted Dreams and Codename Hell Squad should be in this group as they needs minimum 2MB ChipRAM and 1MB FastRAM.
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Old 04 February 2020, 11:26   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
Anyway, this thread is suggesting maybe a dozen or so 256 colour AGA games exist and that after looking at hol.abime.net, I'm beginning to think that feels a touch low - considering the total number of games. Of course, I could just be wrong. But by now I'm thinking somewhere between 50 and 100 AGA games running in 256 colours might just be more realistic than so few.
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Originally Posted by AmigaHope View Post
I'd say at *least* 100 if not more.
I'd be surprised if the number of AGA games using 256 colours exceeds 50-60 in number. If it does, it will only be because of PC ports (commercial, open-source conversions and otherwise) that came well after the commercial demise of the Amiga market circa 1994/95 artificially inflating the figures.

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Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
I mean about ONLY AGA filter (without mentioned combo). Moreover, CD32 games are also AGA or not AGA (just CD compilation of OCS/ECS version).
Identifying shovelware CD32/AmigaCD games that don't strictly require the AGA chipset would be quite interesting for mine, but probably would be a long, boring laborious exercise....especially for one person. As an aside, I'm not sure it's something that HOL should spend a lot of time on either unless there is sufficient demand for the inclusion of such detailed info. Frankly, and somewhat sadly, there are many more important priorities that require the limited time of the 2-4 HOL members/contributors who are active at any given time during the year.

Quote:
What i said (wrote) has nothing to HoL but to real requirements. Game working on ECS with 2MB ChipRAM is not requiring AGA chipset at all, just requires more memory.

Wasted Dreams and Codename Hell Squad should be in this group as they needs minimum 2MB ChipRAM and 1MB FastRAM.
Well, the "Enhanced" identifier was originally created to categorise "fake" AGA games like Jungle Strike, but we could include these sort of games too. I have listed specs for Codename Hell Squad, Wasted Dreams & many more like them in the notes section, so I think it won't be too hard to add them with the help of a custom Google search of HOL. Nevertheless, I think this is a topic for a separate thread.....

Last edited by DrBong; 04 February 2020 at 11:41. Reason: Fixed quoted text + other sentences!
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Old 07 February 2020, 00:06   #31
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Did Super Stardust uses superhires sprites for the remaining energy display?

Didn't Overkill AGA use some kind of superhires smooth scrolling?

Or is there really no game at all that used superhires (1280 columns)?
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Old 07 February 2020, 01:13   #32
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Super Skidmarks used super highres sprites.
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Old 07 February 2020, 15:00   #33
roondar
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Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
I'd be surprised if the number of AGA games using 256 colours exceeds 50-60 in number. If it does, it will only be because of PC ports (commercial, open-source conversions and otherwise) that came well after the commercial demise of the Amiga market circa 1994/95 artificially inflating the figures.
There's nothing artificial about including those PC ports, they're still AGA games in 256 colours - which is half of what the OP was asking about (the other half being resolution)
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Old 08 February 2020, 20:52   #34
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Super Stardust AGA uses super hires for the stars in the intro sequence:
https://github.com/libretro/libretro...ment-583751819
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Old 08 February 2020, 20:55   #35
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Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
There's only one game that runs in 1280 on AGA and in 256 colors

[ Show youtube player ]

I supported this mode for a joke but it does work (obviously it's too slow to use on real hardware)
I wonder with a 60080 vampire if that were still true?

RC
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Old 10 February 2020, 13:36   #36
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Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
If you or anyone else knows of other "fake" AGA games, then please contact us about them. Thanks!

In this article:
http://amr.abime.net/review_38177
Star Trek 25th anniversary is previewed as an ECS game using EHB 64 colors mode by the developpers. (I don't have a 2Mb chip ECS machine to verify and I don't use UaE )

I don't know if Shaq Fu is AGA either, since it was released by Ocean in the same wave that their infamous fake AGA games (Burning Rubber or Jungle Strike)

And of course, James Pond III, if using AGA mode, clearly deserve the title of a fake AGA game, because I don't see where AGA is used in this game. It really seems that this was the ECS version rushed to fit on the 2Mb chip machine (previews did have the extra background)

Last edited by sokolovic; 10 February 2020 at 13:41.
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Old 10 February 2020, 13:43   #37
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Originally Posted by sokolovic View Post
In this article:
http://amr.abime.net/review_38177
Star Trek 25th anniversary is previewed as an ECS game using EHB 64 colors mode by the developpers. (I don't have a 2Mb chip ECS machine to verify and I don't use UaE )

I don't know if Shaq Fu is AGA either, since it was released by Ocean in the same wave that their infamous fake AGA games (Burning Rubber or Jungle Strike)
Star Trek AGA looks the same as the VGA version, so it might have started out as an ECS game, prob memory constrictions made them move to AGA only.
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Old 12 February 2020, 12:31   #38
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I've the impression that Total Carnage was simply a 2mb game, but I'll have to test that out and report back.
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Old 12 February 2020, 12:59   #39
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I've the impression that Total Carnage was simply a 2mb game, but I'll have to test that out and report back.
Seems that way, the only differences look to be a few extra colours on the title screen and other intro screens, and according to The One mag it had few extra intro screens, whilst the A500 version has an added easy mode as it came out after the AGA version.
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Old 12 February 2020, 16:48   #40
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If you or anyone else knows of other "fake" AGA games, then please contact us about them. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by sokolovic View Post
I don't know if Shaq Fu is AGA either, since it was released by Ocean in the same wave that their infamous fake AGA games (Burning Rubber or Jungle Strike)
Have you tried the floppy, HD or WHDLoad versions of Shaq Fu AGA under emulation with OCS/ECS + 2MB ram? If so, have you managed to get any of them to run....even if partially?!

Anyway, thanks for reminding me about Burning Rubber....that's one game I missed in my recent HOL updates of "fake" AGA games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolovic View Post
And of course, James Pond III, if using AGA mode, clearly deserve the title of a fake AGA game, because I don't see where AGA is used in this game. It really seems that this was the ECS version rushed to fit on the 2Mb chip machine (previews did have the extra background)
That's not what you concluded in a previous post. I'm inclined to agree with what you said in that previous post - AGA capabilities are probably being used (e.g. for sprite size and/or number on screen at once). Just because it's not what you consider the best use of AGA, doesn't mean that it is a "fake" AGA game.

As far as HOL is concerned (and myself personally, for that matter), if the main difference between OCS/ECS and AGA versions is a brand new AGA graphics titlescreen and not too much else graphically (e.g. Center Court Tennis 97)....then that game is an AGA release, without question. It might not be the best use of AGA capabilities, but we're not here to to be revisionists (i.e. rewrite history in some distorted weird image of our own).

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Originally Posted by vulture View Post
I've the impression that Total Carnage was simply a 2mb game, but I'll have to test that out and report back.
Please do and report back if you can!

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Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
I'd be surprised if the number of AGA games using 256 colours exceeds 50-60 in number. If it does, it will only be because of PC ports (commercial, open-source conversions and otherwise) that came well after the commercial demise of the Amiga market circa 1994/95 artificially inflating the figures.
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There's nothing artificial about including those PC ports, they're still AGA games in 256 colours - which is half of what the OP was asking about (the other half being resolution)
Despite semantics, it doesn't change my contention that there aren't nearly as many 256 colour mode AGA games as some people might think. As I said above, I'd be surprised if there are more than 50-60 in total....and I think estimates of over 100 are significantly overstating things.

As a few individuals have pointed out in this thread, people often mistake games that use dual playfields, EHB etc. as being 256 colour games when, in fact, they are utilising far fewer colours (e.g. XP8 (AGA) looks like a 256 colour game, but actually only uses a max. of 128 colours on-screen at any given time). Memory becomes a bottleneck on standard set-ups with 256 colours as does the speed of display updates, amongst other considerations on AGA machines. Sometimes a telltale sign of an AGA game using 256 colours is support for window play (e.g. Trapped 2, Gloom 3 and PacMan '96 can be played in an adjustable window on WB).

Nonetheless, if someone (no, not me! ) wants to go to the trouble of rigorously investigating how many AGA games use 256 colours....then I'd be quite fascinated personally and, mildly/moderately interested, from a HOL viewpoint.

Last edited by DrBong; 13 February 2020 at 07:56. Reason: Added a sentence to post + tweaked a few other sentences!
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