English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Coders > Coders. General

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07 November 2019, 19:10   #2221
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
If we use "only" 8 colors for each kind of enemy, we can have: 3 fully cookie-cut blitting, and 2 faster with 25% less blitter usage
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:14   #2222
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
You’re gonna need some memory calculations, remember it has to fit in 512kb chip and 512 fast.

Look at the sprite sheet that is loaded, for a start that is going to need to be split down.
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:15   #2223
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
Whta about doing iy for ECS?
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:20   #2224
Shatterhand
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun

Shatterhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 36
Posts: 3,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
We can keep 32 colors, we just need to optimeze blitter usage, and use more tricks for enemies.
There's no way to keep 32 colors and keep the parallax* unless you are redrawing the whole screen which in 32 colors will be slow as hell.

*of course you can use sprites but then it will make no sense to keep 32 colors.

Sandruzzo, I remember your demo at 16 colors + sprites for parallax was already slowing down with lots of stuff not implemented. I really don't see how can someone make it work at 32 colors. Of course I may bite my tongue, but this really sounds like typical overstating the ECS chipset power.

I am no artist (Anyone who has seen my games can affirm that ), but I'd be down to help scaling down graphics / make simpler backgrounds to make it fit on 16 colors (+ sprites for backgrounds)

With 8 + 8 it's possible to do it, but I don't think it will be good enough to achive requirement number 2 from McGeezer.


Edit: and McGeezer also pointed another obvious problem: Memory usage.
Shatterhand is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:22   #2225
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
Whta about doing iy for ECS?
I'm not bothered whether it is for OCS or ECS.

Obviously I would help with the project but I wouldn't lead on it - I am willing to be proved wrong that it can't be done but I need convincing that I might be (wrong).
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:26   #2226
Shatterhand
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun

Shatterhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 36
Posts: 3,430
Can we keep main hero + scrolling at 50fps and enemy movement at 25 fps?

EDIT: Yes, we can.

I am up to help with the graphics, and I am serious about it. I'd be doing it very slowly up until the end of the year, but after new years eve I could really do it pretty quickly. I am *not* the best guy to do that, but if no one steps up, I am willing to give it a try.
Shatterhand is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:37   #2227
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
@Shatterhand

Latest version was 64 colors. We could try some optimizations to keep 32 colors and 50hz scrolling. Think about that for big bobs we can use a trick to skip background restore. At least for one on ground and one that fly.

Btw my code wasn't optimize, so we have some edge here and with bobs' too
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:44   #2228
Shatterhand
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun

Shatterhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 36
Posts: 3,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
@Shatterhand

Latest version was 64 colors. We could try some optimizations to keep 32 colors and 50hz scrolling. Think about that for big bobs we can use a trick to skip background restore. At least for one on ground and one that fly.
Wait

Now I remember, you were using 4 sprites colors for the background, changing their colors using a copperlist, right?

I dunno... if you can do it with 32 colors, ok. But if we could get the proper speed at 16 colors, wouldn't be better? I think it's perfectly doable with 16 colors + 16 colors for sprites, whatever they may be used for.

If someone can provide me the graphics for AGA Rygar, I can try to make them work with the ECS chipset. Just give me the general direction needed (smaller height for background, 4 colors, 16 colors, 32 colors, whatever), and I can try to do it.

I am not a very good artist, but I think if all I need is to tone down, I can do it reasonably well. I can use Grafx2 very well at this point, and I think I know a thing or two about palette shading and stuff, and I also know how copper lists work.

I am serious, I am up to help with the graphics.
Shatterhand is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:45   #2229
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Wait

If someone can provide me the graphics for AGA Rygar
http://109.228.4.199/downloads/Rygar_IFF_Assets.7z
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:47   #2230
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
@Shatterhand

Sure. On it. If mcgeezer would like to do so, we can optimize blitter usage to squeeze all from it on OCS
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:48   #2231
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
Like Isaid before I would try to optimize enemies' colors usages to speed up blit ops
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:50   #2232
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
@Shatterhand

Sure. On it. If mcgeezer would like to do so, we can optimize blitter usage to squeeze all from it on OCS
Please do some memory calculations first. I'm telling you it won't be easy without a fair amount of work.

If I release the code I need convincing that the project will be seen through, the first hurdle of that is ensuring that it's even possible.
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 19:52   #2233
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
@mcgeezer

With 1mb it can fit it?
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:00   #2234
Shatterhand
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun

Shatterhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 36
Posts: 3,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
Thank you mate.

You *really* need to calculate the memory usage though, Sandruzzo, as McGeezer said. 32 colors would mean still some big blobs memory-wise.
Shatterhand is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:11   #2235
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Thank you mate.

You *really* need to calculate the memory usage though, Sandruzzo, as McGeezer said. 32 colors would mean still some big blobs memory-wise.
You're welcome.

So here is something straight away to think about.

Unless you split the tiles, you're looking at 156Kb - splitting them per round may get save some ram so I would say 75kb to estimate for this - chip ram.

I had a quick look and you would need (at a minimum) 76Kb just to keep the core sprites in chip ram (Rygar and game Objects), this does not include any enemies which would need to be split out and loaded per round.

The music module is roughly 156Kb, the sound fx are around 100kb - so add 256kb right there (and no - you can't screw around with this).

You need 3 40Kb screen buffers bringing it to 120Kb.

CHIP RAM - 75 + 76 + 256 + 120 = 527Kb

That right there rules out OCS Amiga's if you run it at 32 colours (472kb if you run it at 16 colours).

None of that includes any backgrounds, or enemies.

Honestly, the game just cannot be done on an OCS Amiga...every calculation I do tells me I'm right and verifies my decision to do it on the AGA.
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:25   #2236
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
@mcgeezer

Nail it! Maybe we should move on, and doing some OCS frendly port
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:28   #2237
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
@mcgeezer

Nail it! Maybe we should move on, and doing some OCS frendly port
Great!

So can we all now agree that porting the game to OCS Amigas is futile?

ECS may be possible, but a lot of effort required just for that.
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:30   #2238
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
Great!

So can we all now agree that porting the game to OCS Amigas is futile?

ECS may be possible, but a lot of effort required just for that.
100% with you. Was great doing, but we have better stuff to do, isn't? Like more impossible ports to do
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:33   #2239
mcgeezer
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunderland, England
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandruzzo View Post
100% with you. Was great doing, but we have better stuff to do, isn't? Like more impossible ports to do
Excellent - glad we could put it to bed.

Now there's plenty of other ports to do for the Amiga that are entirely do-able.
mcgeezer is offline  
Old 07 November 2019, 20:38   #2240
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,635
@mcgeezer

Words to live with Mate!
sandruzzo is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rygar? Prosonic support.Games 7 09 June 2013 15:18
two more that borrow heavily from Rygar & Black Tiger NfernalNfluence Nostalgia & memories 5 30 September 2012 19:57
SCIENCE 451-RYGAR: same disks mrodfr project.TOSEC (amiga only) 0 26 December 2006 16:38
Wordworth conversion vertigo support.Apps 5 09 December 2003 15:46

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.15192 seconds with 16 queries