AmigaOS 3.9 BoingBag #4 - Page 23

PeterK · 13 January 2018, 18:24

@TuKo
If I learned something from writing MathLibsUAE it's fact that benchmark results are meaningless for the expected speed improvements of real applications. A normal application may spend up to 0-5 % of its time by doing floating point calculations, 95 % or more are used for standard (integer) instructions. So, in the best case, if your mathlibs are unlimited fast, you could make your applications 0-5 % faster. If they are only twice as fast you may gain 0-2.5 % more speed. WOW!

TuKo · 14 January 2018, 07:53

@PeterK

I do not agree with that point of view and surprized it comes from you (with all 5% improvments you've made to IconLib, it's super fast !)

If we can squeeze some more %, we really should.

What I'm more worried about this .lib is loss of precision or new introduced bugs.

honx · 14 January 2018, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuKo

What I'm more worried about this .lib is loss of precision or new introduced bugs.

h&p made improvements and fixed a lot of bugs. i don't think they introduced any.
i'm happy with the official h&p version being provided along with boingbag #4 package.
i'm not that picky about just some minor % in benchmarks. one can also exaggerate.
you rely on benchmark. how should this help in reality? benchmark is no real usage!

PeterK · 14 January 2018, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuKo

What I'm more worried about this .lib is loss of precision or new introduced bugs.

Yes, that's indeed the point why I would not install these old libs. And regarding the speed again, I did never find any application that was running faster. It was so disappointing, because the benchmarks showed me that my mathlibs were much faster on a system with an FPU than those from OS 3.9. And I asked the users to send me an email if something runs more than just 1 % faster, but nothing!

TuKo · 14 January 2018, 17:46

Then, why mathtrans.library 100.1 is included in BB4 ?

dannyp1 · 14 January 2018, 21:29

I'm kind of surprised that this is even being discussed. I believe most users just pay the $8 US and get the HighSpeed Math Libs. The author even accepts PayPal now. When most of us bought them we had to mail cash and wait. I even lost my registration number I needed for one of the updates and I emailed the author and he sent it to me no problem.

PeterK · 15 January 2018, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuKo

Then, why mathtrans.library 100.1 is included in BB4 ?

mathtrans.library 100.-1 is buggy (modified output from HS benchmarks):

Code:

SPLog (0.99)
The result should be
-0.0100504   and is:
-0.0100505               ; acceptable
SPLog (1)
The result should be
0            and is:
1.19209e-07              ; a big bug

Minuous · 15 January 2018, 05:00

Quote:

most users just pay the $8 US and get the HighSpeed Math Libs.

I'd be very surprised if that was the case. And anyway, it is not relevant to the question of whether the 100.x maths libraries are better than the official ones. (Unless you are suggesting I add registered shareware to the distribution, which I don't want to do for obvious reasons. And the demo-version of HSMathLibs is nagware.)

Quote:

Then, why mathtrans.library 100.1 is included in BB4?

Unlike the situation with mathieeesingtrans.library, there has been no official update of mathtrans.library since 1991. But since mathtrans.library 100.1 has now been shown to have bugs, it has been removed from the latest BB3&4 which has just been released at http://amigan.1emu.net/releases/#others

If upgrading from a previous BB3&4, it is suggested to do this:

copy amigaos3.9:os-version3.9/workbench3.5/libs/mathtrans.library libs:

dannyp1 · 15 January 2018, 12:00

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about putting the HSMath libs in the distribution. Just the opposite, I said buy them. And I think it is very relevant to the discussion that people know they don't have to choose between which buggy program they want to use. I love the BB4 project and most of the time I agree with your vision but in this case I didn't.

honx · 15 January 2018, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyp1

I believe most users just pay the $8 US and get the HighSpeed Math Libs.

well, then i'm definitely NOT most users. i would NEVER buy only one single library.
i would NEVER EVER pay so much money for so less software in return. in no way!

Minuous · 15 January 2018, 12:48

Everyone is free to buy the HS versions of course if the speed advantage is important enough to them, personally I don't use them though.

>choose between which buggy program

I don't know of any bugs in the latest official maths libraries.

honx · 15 January 2018, 13:25

updated to today's v1.40, replaced mathtrans.library with 37.1 from os3.9cd as suggested.
but a small bug from the past is back: österreich.country became +sterreich.country again.
there is also espa±a located in locale/countries folder. last but not least a question about:

Quote:

Added a workaround in case BB3&4 is unpacked via xadmaster.library.

what workaround is this, what does it do?

i assume that nothing changed regarding THE menu. today i didn't check for new entries.
only replaced your original english menu file with my german translation without checking...
and i assume, no changes to startup-sequence/user-startup, didn't check these either...

Minuous · 15 January 2018, 13:35

>but a small bug from the past is back: österreich.country became +sterreich.country again. there is also espa±a located in locale/countries folder.

Aaargh, Windows has been messing up the filenames again :-( I will release a fixed archive soon.

>what workaround is this, what does it do?

It is a workaround for the xadmaster/UnArc bug you reported last month in http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=83973 , it checks the problematic filenames and renames them to the correct names if necessary. This fixes the problem with this specific archive, but not for anything else you unpack with xadmaster/UnArc, so I would still recommend using the command line version of LhA in general to unpack archives.

honx · 15 January 2018, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous

It is a workaround for the xadmaster/UnArc bug you reported last month in http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=83973 , it checks the problematic filenames and renames them to the correct names if necessary. This fixes the problem with this specific archive, but not for anything else you unpack with xadmaster/UnArc, so I would still recommend using the command line version of LhA in general to unpack archives.

thx, actually never used lha command line tool, is command "lha x file.lha destination.folder"?
by the way, i have lha v2.11 (oct 19 2005) installed in c:, may i assume it's latest version?

will the fixed archive be v1.41 or how can i recognize it?

DamienD · 15 January 2018, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by honx

by the way, i have lha v2.11 (oct 19 2005) installed in c:, may i assume it's latest version?

I think v2.12 is the latest; you can find on Aminet.

honx · 15 January 2018, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

I think v2.12 is the latest; you can find on Aminet.

thx, i found nothing on aminet, but v2.15 is the latest indeed:
http://lha.a1k.org/, it seems to fix some 2k11 related problem...

DamienD · 15 January 2018, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by honx

thx, i found nothing on aminet

Amiga LhA v2.12

Quote:

Originally Posted by honx

but v2.15 is the latest indeed:
http://lha.a1k.org/, it seems to fix some 2k11 related problem...

Ok, even better

Minuous · 15 January 2018, 14:05

>thx, actually never used lha command line tool, is command "lha x file.lha destination.folder"?

Needs a slash at the end, eg.

lha x file.lha destination.folder/

>will the fixed archive be v1.41

Yes.

honx · 15 January 2018, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Amiga LhA v2.12

thx, i was looking in the wrong place, in util/pack.

now i installed both lha 2.15 and registered lzx 1.21 which can also be found there.
does anyone know why there is also unlzx if one can also use "lzx x" for extracting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous

Needs a slash at the end, eg.

lha x file.lha destination.folder/

thx, i'll try this one when v1.41 hits!

Minuous · 15 January 2018, 16:01

>does anyone know why there is also unlzx if one can also use "lzx x" for extracting?

Most users only need to unpack archives, not create them; unlzx is smaller and easier to use.

14 January 2018, 07:53	#442
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 379	@PeterK I do not agree with that point of view and surprized it comes from you (with all 5% improvments you've made to IconLib, it's super fast !) If we can squeeze some more %, we really should. What I'm more worried about this .lib is loss of precision or new introduced bugs. Last edited by TuKo; 14 January 2018 at 17:45.

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13 January 2018, 18:24	#441
PeterK Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: digital hell, Germany, after 1984, but worse Posts: 3,365	@TuKo If I learned something from writing MathLibsUAE it's fact that benchmark results are meaningless for the expected speed improvements of real applications. A normal application may spend up to 0-5 % of its time by doing floating point calculations, 95 % or more are used for standard (integer) instructions. So, in the best case, if your mathlibs are unlimited fast, you could make your applications 0-5 % faster. If they are only twice as fast you may gain 0-2.5 % more speed. WOW!

14 January 2018, 17:46	#445
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 379	Then, why mathtrans.library 100.1 is included in BB4 ?

14 January 2018, 21:29	#446
dannyp1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Michigan USA Posts: 168	I'm kind of surprised that this is even being discussed. I believe most users just pay the $8 US and get the HighSpeed Math Libs. The author even accepts PayPal now. When most of us bought them we had to mail cash and wait. I even lost my registration number I needed for one of the updates and I emailed the author and he sent it to me no problem.

15 January 2018, 12:00	#449
dannyp1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Michigan USA Posts: 168	Please don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about putting the HSMath libs in the distribution. Just the opposite, I said buy them. And I think it is very relevant to the discussion that people know they don't have to choose between which buggy program they want to use. I love the BB4 project and most of the time I agree with your vision but in this case I didn't.

15 January 2018, 12:48	#451
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,630	Everyone is free to buy the HS versions of course if the speed advantage is important enough to them, personally I don't use them though. >choose between which buggy program I don't know of any bugs in the latest official maths libraries.

15 January 2018, 13:35	#453
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,630	>but a small bug from the past is back: österreich.country became +sterreich.country again. there is also espa±a located in locale/countries folder. Aaargh, Windows has been messing up the filenames again :-( I will release a fixed archive soon. >what workaround is this, what does it do? It is a workaround for the xadmaster/UnArc bug you reported last month in http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=83973 , it checks the problematic filenames and renames them to the correct names if necessary. This fixes the problem with this specific archive, but not for anything else you unpack with xadmaster/UnArc, so I would still recommend using the command line version of LhA in general to unpack archives.

15 January 2018, 14:05	#458
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,630	>thx, actually never used lha command line tool, is command "lha x file.lha destination.folder"? Needs a slash at the end, eg. lha x file.lha destination.folder/ >will the fixed archive be v1.41 Yes.

15 January 2018, 16:01	#460
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,630	>does anyone know why there is also unlzx if one can also use "lzx x" for extracting? Most users only need to unpack archives, not create them; unlzx is smaller and easier to use.

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