English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04 June 2020, 00:49   #141
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 46
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post
Fair enough, just trying to learn from those more knowledgeable.
Until the Warp 1260 showed up, feature wise, the Vampires clearly had the edge over other offerings. But then there's the case of long delivery time, problems to find people who can fix the boards etc.
Also, the Vampire project is moving in a different direction and not all Amigans will want to go there..
Right now I'd say Vampire is for those who dream of using the Amiga for "serious stuff" rather than just playing around with it for nostalgic reasons.
For most people there aren't a lot of reasons to have anything faster than a 100MHz 060. And now with the Warp, you also get RTG and loads of RAM so you can run WB in FullHD. Then there are options for USB, Ethernet, 16 bit Audio. And it will all work with wb 3.1.4, 3.2 etc..I'd say that covers the needs of a whole lot of ppl (and many will appreciate that its an actual Motorola processor powering their Amiga).

The Vampire team have chosen the AROS path which makes sense if you want to have control over the future development but a lot of Amiga users are quite happy with wb 3.1 and look forward to wb3.2.. This is another topic though so lets leave it at that.

If you have an old untouched Blizzard, you probably have an early revision (XC). Both the Warp and the Vamp will give the above mentioned features so it would be a very noticeable boost either way.. Its up to you to decide which philosophy you prefer.
Personally I sold my vampire for several reasons but some being that you're basically a perpetual beta tester, you have little support from the community if you insist on running vanilla 3.1.4 and also limited support when thing go south with the hardware. But that's just *my* experience. I'm sure lots of people are super happy with their Vampires.
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 01:25   #142
NovaCoder
Registered User
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melbourne/Australia
Posts: 3,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Right now I'd say Vampire is for those who dream of using the Amiga for "serious stuff" rather than just playing around with it for nostalgic reasons.
For most people there aren't a lot of reasons to have anything faster than a 100MHz 060. And now with the Warp, you also get RTG and loads of RAM so you can run WB in FullHD. Then there are options for USB, Ethernet, 16 bit Audio. And it will all work with wb 3.1.4, 3.2 etc..I'd say that covers the needs of a whole lot of ppl (and many will appreciate that its an actual Motorola processor powering their Amiga).
Yep I agree, everyone wants something different for their retro fix but for me personally this new Warp card is exactly the kind of accelerator I wanted when the Vampire was under development all those years ago.

If I still had an A1200 then I'd be lining up to buy one.
NovaCoder is online now  
Old 04 June 2020, 01:37   #143
seb132
French in Australia
seb132's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gold Coast
Age: 49
Posts: 330
Send a message via MSN to seb132 Send a message via Yahoo to seb132
The RTG card seem very responsive! Amazing how the icons are popping up so fast.
My Picasso II struggles at high resolutions and even a mediator with a Voodoo3 is slow compared to that... amazing, really.
I want one.
seb132 is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 01:45   #144
grelbfarlk
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,065
Hey Chucky any chance you feel like running dnetc -bench on the Warp1260?
http://http.distributed.net/pub/dcti...migaos-68k.lha
grelbfarlk is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 01:51   #145
UberFreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the world
Posts: 345
Its awesome that there are new 060 cards coming (Warp, TF360/1260 and ACA1260) but nobody addresses the elephant in the room...

Where will all the 060 CPUs come from?
From what I read, they are very hard to get in decent quantities and the market is flooded with fakes.
UberFreak is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 07:57   #146
NovaCoder
Registered User
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melbourne/Australia
Posts: 3,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberFreak View Post
Its awesome that there are new 060 cards coming (Warp, TF360/1260 and ACA1260) but nobody addresses the elephant in the room...

Where will all the 060 CPUs come from?
From what I read, they are very hard to get in decent quantities and the market is flooded with fakes.
Maybe one day someone will develop a 68060 pin compatible drop in FPGA replacement
NovaCoder is online now  
Old 04 June 2020, 08:23   #147
aeberbach
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
Maybe one day someone will develop a 68060 pin compatible drop in FPGA replacement
At the current going rate maybe someone could make some money. Big, big task though.
aeberbach is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 09:27   #148
AMike
Registered User
AMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: near Vienna/Austria
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post
Good point. For me it's a little bit of both actually. My classic gaming needs are already covered I'd say. For productivity I sometimes use the XTREME screenmode (1280x1024) with scandoubler on a monitor with the same native resolution.
Yeap, the Indy MKII and the Xtreme screenmode are a great combination - but most of the time I used "only" HighGfx. If your TFT supports low clock rates you get with the Vampire a maximum off 1280x1024. (Benq Bl912) 1080p from the Warp looks awesome and if the mentioned flickerfixer is available I'll buy one for sure. What I like about the V1200 is that the card is complete silent - no fan - no heatsink - like my good old 1230. But that's also possible with the Warp if you stay at 50Mhz.
AMike is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 09:50   #149
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 46
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberFreak View Post
Its awesome that there are new 060 cards coming (Warp, TF360/1260 and ACA1260) but nobody addresses the elephant in the room...

Where will all the 060 CPUs come from?
From what I read, they are very hard to get in decent quantities and the market is flooded with fakes.
If you think about it there must be a lot of 060 CPUs out there. No manufacturer would create a whole new process like the (0.32 um rev 6 060) and then produce only 10,000 of them. Also, Freescale made a bunch, didn't they. Problem is finding them. I don't think the small size of active Amiga community that wants a 060 is significant compared to the number of genuine rev6 060 CPUs produced. Now, for sure some are likely lost forever but they've always had some value so when ppl were dismantling old systems/machines they'd usually pull out the CPU etc.. compared to most other CPUs in the world ever made, there has been a continuous demand for 060 since the 90s and it still exists to this day.

Several members of the community (like Chucky) have been sourcing 060 over the years and while they've come across a lot of fakes, they've also found a lot of real ones. So go buy one from sources within the community. A lot of the new cards will be sold with sockets, alternatively you can send your own CPU in and get it soldered (I believe that was the deal with the Warp1260?)
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:09   #150
Liqourice
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Posts: 108
The 060 was widely used in industrial robots. Problem with that was that when controller cards with the 060 failed on those the entire card was scrapped and replaced, the old card with the most likely still working 060's were sent as scrap metal. Hence, a lot of them were lost that way.

I know because I have two 060's that were saved from controller boards like that. I doubt that many were saved in the same fashion because I don't think most people handling these robots were aware what they were throwing away and at the time the interest for these processors weren't as high as it is today. Mine were rescued because one person working in the factory was an Amiga fan and knew what they were.

I actually got them for free.

This was 20 years ago though.
Liqourice is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:32   #151
ealm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vienna
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Right now I'd say Vampire is for those who dream of using the Amiga for "serious stuff" rather than just playing around with it for nostalgic reasons.

For most people there aren't a lot of reasons to have anything faster than a 100MHz 060. And now with the Warp, you also get RTG and loads of RAM so you can run WB in FullHD. Then there are options for USB, Ethernet, 16 bit Audio.
I disagree. People who want to use their Amiga for nostalgic reasons shouldn't really bother with 060's and all the incompabilities that come with it. Better then to stick to 030 which runs the classic software swiftly and with a high level of compability. And to a MUCH lower price than Warp + CPU.

And it makes absolutely no sense to play around with retro software in ARM-accelerated 1080p with USB, Eth and 16 bit audio. These features rather suggest you're aiming for the same market as Vampire, i.e. those who wants to advance the classic platform. And in that race Vampire is both faster, cheaper, more compatible, more reliable and advances the platform more than the Warp 060. Plus it's not a dead end since the hardware is still being both produced and developed further.

Last edited by ealm; 04 June 2020 at 13:40.
ealm is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:34   #152
hall
Registered User

hall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
If you have an old untouched Blizzard, you probably have an early revision (XC). Both the Warp and the Vamp will give the above mentioned features so it would be a very noticeable boost either way.. Its up to you to decide which philosophy you prefer.
Personally I sold my vampire for several reasons but some being that you're basically a perpetual beta tester, you have little support from the community if you insist on running vanilla 3.1.4 and also limited support when thing go south with the hardware. But that's just *my* experience. I'm sure lots of people are super happy with their Vampires.
Thanks for your input and clarification! Gave me some things to think about. For example 3.1.4 and/or 3.2 compatibility is certainly a concern of mine. Well I'm in no hurry...

My Blizzard is hardly untouched though. It's a rev5 060 clocked at 78 MHz where it bottoms out. So it's not exactly like I'm in a desperate need of more horsepower (though more is always more ), but rather interested in the added functionality such as RTG etc.
hall is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:35   #153
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by ealm View Post
And it makes absolutely no sense to play around with retro software in ARM-accelerated 1080p with USB, Eth and 16 bit audio. These features rather suggest you're aiming for the same market as Vampire, i.e. those who wants to advance the classic platform. And in that race Vampire is both faster, cheaper, more compatible, more reliable and advances the platform more than the Warp 060.
Why not? I've been enjoying an '060-powered Amiga with ethernet, 1080p RTG and 16-bit audio for 20+ years now, and options for CPU, RTG, ethernet and audio upgrades existed all the way back. After all, the Amiga was designed to be expanded, and a lot of software naturally benefits from it.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:39   #154
ealm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vienna
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Why not? I've been enjoying an '060-powered Amiga with ethernet, 1080p RTG and 16-bit audio for 20+ years now, and options for CPU, RTG, ethernet and audio upgrades existed all the way back. After all, the Amiga was designed to be expanded, and a lot of software naturally benefits from it.
Of course, but for those "just playing around with it for nostalgic reasons" those expansions usually make little sense.
ealm is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:41   #155
hall
Registered User

hall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMike View Post
Yeap, the Indy MKII and the Xtreme screenmode are a great combination - but most of the time I used "only" HighGfx. If your TFT supports low clock rates you get with the Vampire a maximum off 1280x1024.
Yeah, my monitor syncs as low as 48 Hz actually which, after many hours of tweaking, got me very close to perfect (seeing as vsync never got implemented on the Mk2) 50 Hz PAL modes. Very happy in that department.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMike View Post
What I like about the V1200 is that the card is complete silent - no fan - no heatsink - like my good old 1230. But that's also possible with the Warp if you stay at 50Mhz.
Yes, silence is certainly appealing to me too.
hall is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 13:50   #156
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by ealm View Post
Of course, but for those "just playing around with it for nostalgic reasons" those expansions usually make little sense.
I guess it depends on how much money a user is willing to spend on that nostalgia, and the nature of it. Of course if your nostalgia is just about loading Sensible Soccer on an A500, then there's little point to a high end expansion. But there are quite a number of people buying such expansions, both old and new, because they want the high end Amiga they could only dream of in the '90s, drooling over them in magazines. Now getting back into it 25 years later, they can actually afford it, and these add-ons will definitely appeal to them.

After all, Mediators and suitable tower cases are still being made and sold as well.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 14:10   #157
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 46
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by ealm View Post
I disagree. People who want to use their Amiga for nostalgic reasons shouldn't really bother with 060's and all the incompabilities that come with it. Better then to stick to 030 which runs the classic software swiftly and with a high level of compability. And to a MUCH lower price than Warp + CPU.

And it makes absolutely no sense to play around with retro software in ARM-accelerated 1080p with USB, Eth and 16 bit audio. These features rather suggest you're aiming for the same market as Vampire, i.e. those who wants to advance the classic platform. And in that race Vampire is both faster, cheaper, more compatible, more reliable and advances the platform more than the Warp 060. Plus it's not a dead end since the hardware is still being both produced and developed further.
Its fine to disagree, but let me clarify..
For me 060 is still nostalgia.. I had a 060 in my Amiga as soon as the Blizzard 1260 was released by Phase 5 in Germany (yes I order by mailorder from Gemrany before it was even available in Sweden). So my memories of playing Alien Breed 3d TKG was playing it on a 060.. I also did a lot of 3d stuff on a 060.. Yes there were some incompatibilities with some software but most of the stuff I used worked just fine. Why would I now limit myself to 030 all of a sudden? To me that makes no sense. (But then again I have something like 6 Amigas and theres a Blizzard 030 in one of them, ;-)

Also, lots of people I knew back then had big box Amigas. 3rd party RTG has been around since the early 90s and a natural part of the Amiga eco-system.. so why would that be such a stretch to use a similar solution these days.
For practical reasons they chose an ARM cpu to get easy RTG solution.. I'm fine with that, its a clever solution that doesnt require lots of physical space so they can make it wortk both on warp 560 and 1260 which is a bonus... its also practical because old monitors are getting rare and new monitors are a hassle..so to make it easier for daily use, RTG makes sense.

16 bit Audio is something I dont personally care too much about though. (I have a Roland SC88 for my MIDI needs and I dont play mp3s on Amiga..)
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 14:20   #158
jbilander
Registered User

jbilander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Stockholm
Age: 44
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
Maybe one day someone will develop a 68060 pin compatible drop in FPGA replacement
I actually suggested that to the Vampire team on their forum the other day, that they could offer an 060-core replica (a stripped down 080) in a smaller cheaper FPGA as a CPU-option for cards like this. They don't seem so keen on the idea, Gunnar says it would be around $100 in costs and $200 in sales price for such a solution with a small pcb drop in FPGA replacement.
jbilander is offline  
Old 04 June 2020, 14:42   #159
lilwshu
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 36
I can chuck my hat into the nostialgia ring, I think the point about finally being able to have an 060 powered Amiga with RTG etc. after dreaming of one back in the day is the biggest market for this stuff.

I bought a pre-towerised Amiga 1200 with Mediator, some kind of Picasso, 060 board, OS 3.9, Ethernet etc etc in 2003 for about 300 quid as I had always wanted one. I got it home, ran Quake on it at a worse framerate than a then-ancient PC, failed to browse most modern websites (even in 2003), ended up playing SWOS on it and then sold it (kicking myself now obviously).

I now have a boggo 1200 with fast RAM - I can still tinker with things, play games on it, try to do things it shouldn't do with minimal investment knowing that I have already done the expanded Amiga thing. If I hadn't, I would definitely be interested in this card.
lilwshu is online now  
Old 04 June 2020, 18:12   #160
NorthWay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Grimstad / Norway
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
Maybe one day someone will develop a 68060 pin compatible drop in FPGA replacement
That would make too much sense, so obviously: No.


(Which would then probably be real close to satisfy most ASIC requirements so you could do something like a Kickstarter for it. Which would make too much sense again, so no.)
NorthWay is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blizzard 1260 / Apollo 1260 size liviux76 support.Hardware 2 24 May 2017 17:02
Apollo 1260 or Blizzard 1260? BarryB support.Hardware 74 10 January 2015 17:13
WTB: Blizzard 1260 or Apollo 1260 OldB0y MarketPlace 1 13 April 2010 23:42
Possible trade, Apollo 1260 @ 80mhz for Blizz 1260 Molcos Swapshop 3 13 November 2009 16:13
Apollo 1260 32MB FAST or Blizzard 1260 64MB FAST? prart support.Hardware 36 19 June 2008 00:23

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.10032 seconds with 16 queries