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Old 13 May 2015, 09:57   #61
JudasEZT
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I have been enjoying this thread and have been playing around with the C64 colour palette. This is not a real game just experimenting. Of course the limitation could be the user not the palette

Nice to be able to blend the C64 and Amiga in some way
I like it. If that Amiga Games Creator comes to live.. yourself will be able to join all that stuff.

Imho, code a multi 8-way scroller platformer is a very hard task!
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Old 13 May 2015, 12:02   #62
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Could the problem be less that the hardware is complicated/time is too long and more that Amiga as a platform really lacks a developer environment altogether? i.e development kits/tools, knowledge base and social networking..
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Old 13 May 2015, 17:01   #63
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I have been enjoying this thread and have been playing around with the C64 colour palette. This is not a real game just experimenting. Of course the limitation could be the user not the palette
I really like how it looks. The increased resolution, 1:1 pixels and no limit on how many colors you can put on an 8x8 tile make the palette really shine through, especially with the ability to create patterns to make even more colors.
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Old 13 May 2015, 18:05   #64
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I believe as the machine becomes more complex, we the hobbyist have to work harder and harder to produce something meaningful.

From the C64 to the Amiga you get more complexity in coding for multiple dedicated chips. The same goes for the modern PC if you want to develop a game from scratch. Learning the ins and out of OpenGL or Directx isn't trivial for somebody doing it as a hobby. Of course you can use a game engine, but even those have quite a learning curve if you can't allocate that much time to it.

Nothing comes for free in this world.
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Old 13 May 2015, 20:00   #65
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From the C64 to the Amiga you get more complexity in coding for multiple dedicated chips. The same goes for the modern PC if you want to develop a game from scratch.
Yeah but who does that nowadays?
There are frameworks and engines and whatnot to get you started and focusing on what matters, which is game creation. On the Amiga, you could use something simpler like Blitz or AMOS to get you sorted with the more complex things like system initialization, screen management, audio management etc.

Perhaps the creation of an Amiga-based framework would be a good start to this whole deal. But there are some things you can use as a base, for example, phx released his Solid Gold sourcecode and I am sure that has a framework people can use to proceed creating their own game.
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Old 13 May 2015, 20:08   #66
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Yeah but who does that nowadays?
There are frameworks and engines and whatnot to get you started and focusing on what matters, which is game creation. On the Amiga, you could use something simpler like Blitz or AMOS to get you sorted with the more complex things like system initialization, screen management, audio management etc.

Perhaps the creation of an Amiga-based framework would be a good start to this whole deal. But there are some things you can use as a base, for example, phx released his Solid Gold sourcecode and I am sure that has a framework people can use to proceed creating their own game.
Nobody... But it's the reason why almost all modern games are a variation of FPS or another. That's the pitfall of using a game engine. Yes you can do almost anything with them, but since their main target are FPS, that's the path of least resistance for devs.

This is why whole genre of gaming have just about disappeared from the gaming map. And it's also why retro gaming is popular at the moment.

Game engine have their uses but it's nice when somebody think outside the box...
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Old 13 May 2015, 20:23   #67
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the more complex things like system initialization, screen management, audio management etc.
Those are by far the easiest parts of any game/application and are written in a few days spending a few hours per day (in ASM or C). The hard part is the rest of the software (depending on what it is).

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Nobody... But it's the reason why almost all modern games are a variation of FPS or another. That's the pitfall of using a game engine. Yes you can do almost anything with them, but since their main target are FPS, that's the path of least resistance for devs.
Try Unity3D (current free version has all features). It isn't geared towards any single game type and is suitable for anything. FPS games are undoubtedly still the easiest to make because of the simple nature of that genre, but Unity doesn't favor it. Even if you write everything from scratch, an FPS will probably still be one of the least hard genres to do properly.
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Old 13 May 2015, 20:45   #68
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Loneworlf, buy now you have a set of tools you can re-use. That time you spent creating development tools can be "recovered"in your next game's production.
Yup, I can use the tools I created to help me create future games

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Well played indeed for creating the toolset first!
Well, I figured hand creating the data for the levels would be a nightmare, especially when it came to changing the level layouts. The slightest typo in the data and I could be searching for a non-existant bug!
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Old 13 May 2015, 21:23   #69
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Those are by far the easiest parts of any game/application and are written in a few days spending a few hours per day (in ASM or C). The hard part is the rest of the software (depending on what it is).


Try Unity3D (current free version has all features). It isn't geared towards any single game type and is suitable for anything. FPS games are undoubtedly still the easiest to make because of the simple nature of that genre, but Unity doesn't favor it. Even if you write everything from scratch, an FPS will probably still be one of the least hard genres to do properly.
I've tried it in the past, but I've no interest in creating games on the PC.
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Old 14 May 2015, 00:06   #70
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Nobody... But it's the reason why almost all modern games are a variation of FPS or another. That's the pitfall of using a game engine.
Unity 3D is a game engine and the last thing I have seen made with it is an FPS. Your generalization doesn't really apply. There are lots of cool, inventive games being made nowadays for a variety of platforms.
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Old 14 May 2015, 01:58   #71
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Unity 3D is a game engine and the last thing I have seen made with it is an FPS. Your generalization doesn't really apply. There are lots of cool, inventive games being made nowadays for a variety of platforms.
Sheesh, lighten up. Everybody is entitled to its opinion.
I bloody well know what unity is. But you see I don't really care about it since I'm on an Amiga forum and in a thread about Amiga programming and unity doesn't run on the Amiga.
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Old 14 May 2015, 01:59   #72
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I think in reality, it is easier (and more fun?) to be creative the more limitations you have. Of course, if there are too many limitations it also kills the creativity since you can't do anything. So, somewhere there is an optimal trade off for creativity and it may be around the C64 level. It is not too complicated to wrap your head around how everything works in it. If you dig deep though, not everything is as it seems which is where the real creativity kicks in.

The challenge is to 'beat the game', i.e. take the system beyond what it was meant to do. On an Amiga it is hard to utilize all its functions the way they were meant to, and on a PC it is almost impossible since it will do almost anything you can imagine (rendering things in ridiculous resolutions do not count).

Last edited by demolition; 14 May 2015 at 02:05.
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Old 14 May 2015, 04:11   #73
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Sheesh, lighten up. Everybody is entitled to its opinion.
No need to get all aggressive, because I wasn't being aggressive at all.
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Old 14 May 2015, 06:33   #74
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Can we start creating open source code for others to use even if we create small bounties/kickstarter type payments for peoples efforts. I'd be happy to donate small amounts of money (hopefully my wife isn't reading this )

Do we need to start working closer with Atari ST or other 68k programmers/developers?
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Old 14 May 2015, 08:06   #75
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Can we start creating open source code for others to use even if we create small bounties/kickstarter type payments for peoples efforts. I'd be happy to donate small amounts of money
You talk about "can we start creating", but you don't want to create anything yourself, and this is pretty much the problem. There can't be a scene with everyone being a consumer, a scene is built upon people actually producing something.
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Old 14 May 2015, 08:51   #76
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Maybe the reason the amiga homebrew are not so good is because there are no producers but only consumers that are asked by other consumers to turn to producers to create something with some magic spell for free.
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Old 14 May 2015, 09:13   #77
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Maybe the reason the amiga homebrew are not so good is because there are no producers but only consumers that are asked by other consumers to turn to producers to create something with some magic spell for free.
Well, at least I'm a producer, which is why I'm trying to get more people to produce something, because creativity feeds creativity. And on this platform there's no chance of making any serious money anyway, so it's best to do it for free because it's fun.

And to be clear, I'm not judging the quality of Amiga homebrew, rather the lack of releases.
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Old 14 May 2015, 09:19   #78
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Most games now on PC or cellphones are made on engines such as Unity, Game maker, construct etc. Except very few cases that some commercial high production value game is made with programmers.
There is no such engine on the Amiga and there are very few Amiga programmers out there so this leads to no releases except the backbone games that may also get you sued by some copyright freak and need 68060 to run.
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Old 14 May 2015, 09:23   #79
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There is no such engine on the Amiga and there are very few Amiga programmers out there so this leads to no releases except the backbone games that may also get you sued by some copyright freak and need 68060 to run.
There's an easy way for not getting sued, don't use copyrighted material.

And there might be more Amiga programmers out there if people actually bothered to start learning, as it's really not that hard. But it's of course easier to post on forums complaining about the lack of programmers
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Old 14 May 2015, 09:35   #80
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So there you are, if it is so easy then start program a game, do the graphics and sound too and when you finish teach the rest of the whining guys to do this easy task.
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