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Old 05 October 2017, 16:12   #21
MigaTech
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Indeed, and I still think the amount of work involved in a port of such a game is being greatly underestimated. emulation on a classic system is out of the question. While there are both PC and PS1 emulators available, no machines really have the grunt to run PS1 games at full speed. My 060 was able to run Windows 3.1 and Minesweeper with relatively little lag, but it certainly wasn't a pleasant experience, and I can't imagine it would be any better with a far more demanding OS and game.

Bear in mind as well that, while the backgrounds were static, the enemies and players were all textured 3D models, something that's a particular weakspot for the native Amiga chipset; Having the same 24-bit palette isn't enough.

For a powerful machine like a PPC classic, why not look into some of the other ports around. Things like Command & Conquer, Descent: Freespace 1 & 2, Wipeout and so on. All are ports that will make use of the hardware. People tend to do ports of games in which they have a personal interest for whatever reason, and have had their engines open sourced. If you don't have both of those conditions, you'll need to have very deep pockets to make a port happen.

Once again yet another excellent post !! Thank you Daedalus. I think you and rare j touched on some good points and this is why I set-up this thread in the first place. As many in here, we may all know our bit about Amiga but we all lack in different area's.< This is why I am interested in what others have to say about an Amiga version of Resident Evil.

You said it requires deep pockets? < Does this mean for copyright or actual coding/programming skills?
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Old 05 October 2017, 16:13   #22
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You would need at least 68040 and a 3D card to match the PlayStation 1 specs. The game is not open source so I don't see how this could happen. The only way to do is do a sprite-based 2D game where sprites zoom in and out like adventure games eg monkey island.
Then another problem: where is the Amiga gamepad with 8 or so buttons?
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Old 05 October 2017, 16:23   #23
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You would need at least 68040 and a 3D card to match the PlayStation 1 specs. The game is not open source so I don't see how this could happen. The only way to do is do a sprite-based 2D game where sprites zoom in and out like adventure games eg monkey island.
Then another problem: where is the Amiga gamepad with 8 or so buttons?
Playstation was 33MHz doesn't seem that much against an 80MHz 060. OK, I know there is more to it than just that but still...

@nobody < Would a competition pro pad do the job?
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Old 05 October 2017, 16:54   #24
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You said it requires deep pockets? < Does this mean for copyright or actual coding/programming skills?
Well, potentially both If the source isn't released you'll need to licence the engine and material, and that won't be cheap. And if there aren't any coders interested in doing it for fun, they would need to be hired. Occasionally something like this could be crowdfunded, but it doesn't seem like there's an appetite for such a project.

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Playstation was 33MHz doesn't seem that much against an 80MHz 060. OK, I know there is more to it than just that but still...
Actually, the 060 is perfectly capable for those sorts of games when run as ports rather than emulation. Look at games like Descent: Freespace, which pushed the limits of a 68k-based machine and required 3D acceleration, but easily matched the PS1's power. However, such machines are rare and very expensive, so the demand for games for them is quite low.

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Then another problem: where is the Amiga gamepad with 8 or so buttons?
The Amiga can use all buttons of a PSX pad that's connected to the parallel port using an adaptor. There are also the CD32-type pads if you can reduce the requirement down to 6 buttons, but some games (e.g. Payback) supported 8 button control by using the adaptor directly.
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Old 05 October 2017, 16:57   #25
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Playstation was 33MHz doesn't seem that much against an 80MHz 060.
You are grossly underestimating the PSX's GPU. It isn't just about CPU speed.

Playstation was MADE FOR 3D graphics. The Amiga can't push any of those with grace, especially not at PSX level, not without a dedicated 3D graphics card (ie not an Amiga anymore IMO :P)

The closest PSX/Amiga thing you are going to get is wip3out 2097, and that required both a PPC and a 3D graphic card (again, not an "Amiga"). Quoted from HOL:

Quote:
Minimum Specs: 603e PPC processor, 3D gfx card (with Warp 3D support), WB 3.0, 24Mb fastram, CDROM drive, 1Mb HD space for min. installation.
Recommended: 604e PPC processor, 3D gfx card (with Warp 3D support; Permedia 2 or better), WB 3.1+, 32Mb+ fastram, 70Mb HD space for full installation (required to play CD tracks during animations), sound card (with AHI support), joypad.
You are never going to get something like Resident Evil out of an Amiga. Discarding all the impossible to ignore technicalities, a game of that scope was made by a large time for many years. You are never going to get that. Ever. Again.
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Old 05 October 2017, 17:11   #26
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@Akira

What you're saying is true, but to be fair, Wipeout 2097 on a monster Amiga does outclass the Playstation version (other than the soundtrack, but that's a different story). For example, PS1 screenshot versus Amiga screenshot.

But as you say, without a 3D graphics card, not a hope.
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Old 05 October 2017, 17:14   #27
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Yeah the PSX resolution was dismal.
Even though, it still pushed a shit ton of polys around, no Amiga could do that, because it wasn't meant to.
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Old 05 October 2017, 17:24   #28
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You are grossly underestimating the PSX's GPU. It isn't just about CPU speed.

Playstation was MADE FOR 3D graphics. The Amiga can't push any of those with grace, especially not at PSX level, not without a dedicated 3D graphics card (ie not an Amiga anymore IMO :P)

The closest PSX/Amiga thing you are going to get is wip3out 2097, and that required both a PPC and a 3D graphic card (again, not an "Amiga"). Quoted from HOL:



You are never going to get something like Resident Evil out of an Amiga. Discarding all the impossible to ignore technicalities, a game of that scope was made by a large time for many years. You are never going to get that. Ever. Again.
My personal Amiga is an customised towered Amiga 1200, Phase 5 PPC 240/256, 040/25 with RTG. < Tower modified and system built by myself.

Just some of the games I own: Wipeout 2097, Quake, Genetic species, Napalm, Open Space, Myst, Doom series, Nemac IV, Gloom series, Alien Breed 3D.

OK, so not all these are PPC driven but do show the Amiga has good skills when trying to offer 3D generated platforms.

OK, so yes I obviously realise that the Playstation had more than just 33MHz to play with, hence why I put "there is more to it than that". I think programmers could do Resident Evil on Amiga but like others have stated it wouldn't be easy. In the past video game houses had to break the rules on what could be done with the specs available. Myst took a long time and they pushed the Apple computers of that time to the limit to make it happen. I do respect your opinion on all this but I still believe it is possible with ingenuity.

I also appreciate your opinion about this PPC gets involved it is no longer Amiga< As technically to some extent you are correct. But I look at it like this, without the PPC, Amiga cannot offer Wipeout 2097 and without the Amiga, PPC cannot offer Wipeout 2097. < Guess it requires both to make video games beyond Amiga capabilities happen.
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Old 05 October 2017, 17:35   #29
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without the Amiga, PPC cannot offer Wipeout 2097.
What? I don't understand if you mean generally the PPC architecture, in which case it is not true, because there was a Mac port of wipeout 2097 running on PPC.

In any case what I say remains true to me, just because it is bolted onto an Amiga computer, a PPC+gfx card game is not an Amiga game.
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Old 05 October 2017, 17:45   #30
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What? I don't understand if you mean generally the PPC architecture, in which case it is not true, because there was a Mac port of wipeout 2097 running on PPC.
No I meant in regards to Amiga and PPC working together, not PPC as a product.

Yes I see your point about PPC with 3DFX< no longer actual Amiga powered. Then again it could be debated in the respect to any upgrade you add to a stock 1200. <Meaning no longer original spec Amiga.
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Old 05 October 2017, 17:58   #31
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Any upgrade in which you maintain processor architecture (680x0) and doesn't render the custom chipset useless, is still totally Amiga.

For a lot of people Amiga is just the operating system though, so they don't care what hardware it runs on (however somehow most frown upon then running it under WinUAE!). I disagree, but whatever, running your thread OT.
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Old 05 October 2017, 18:57   #32
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running your thread OT.
What do you mean by this?
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Old 07 October 2017, 09:22   #33
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What do you mean by this?


Means ruining the thread by going OT. doesn’t want to


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Old 13 October 2017, 10:27   #34
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Hello

Just tried "Resident Evil Director cut" cd image (=SLUS_005.51.bin) on FPSE for OS3 (the playstation emulator) inside WinUAE with Warp3D plugin (=gpuw3d) + Wazp3D : and it works :-)

So certainly on a real Amiga fast enough it should works too

Certainly lots of other 3D games (that dont have been tested yet...) must works too

Alain Thellier

Wazp3D: renderer: Soft to bitmap
needed as the display mix 3D and 2D backgrounds
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Old 13 October 2017, 10:34   #35
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Hello

Just tried "Resident Evil Director cut" cd image (=SLUS_005.51.bin) on FPSE for OS3 (the playstation emulator) inside WinUAE with Warp3D plugin (=gpuw3d) + Wazp3D : and it works :-)

So certainly on a real Amiga fast enough it should works too

Certainly lots of other 3D games (that dont have been tested yet...) must works too

Alain Thellier

Wazp3D: renderer: Soft to bitmap
needed as the display mix 3D and 2D backgrounds
Could you make a guide for everybody ??
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Old 13 October 2017, 11:08   #36
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Hello

Just tried "Resident Evil Director cut" cd image (=SLUS_005.51.bin) on FPSE for OS3 (the playstation emulator) inside WinUAE with Warp3D plugin (=gpuw3d) + Wazp3D : and it works :-)

So certainly on a real Amiga fast enough it should works too

Certainly lots of other 3D games (that dont have been tested yet...) must works too

Alain Thellier

Wazp3D: renderer: Soft to bitmap
needed as the display mix 3D and 2D backgrounds
Barely playable on Amiga with a PPC card. This is normal because i remember PSX emulation needed a Pentium 3 at 500/600 Mhz to run properly.

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Old 13 October 2017, 14:04   #37
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Guide for using Resident Evil/FPSE/WinUAE:

Download FPSE for AmigaOS3 (M68k)
http://www.amidog.com/amiga/fpse/
Ensure plugins are in the package else download them

Find "Resident Evil Director cut" cd image somewhere
Unpack the archive to obtain .cue .bin etc... files in the FPSE directory
(I obtained SLUS_005.51.bin SLUS_005.51.cue)

Install Wazp3D
http://aminet.net/package/driver/video/Wazp3D

Start Wazp3D-Prefs
just change this setting and close
renderer: Soft to bitmap
(You cant use renderer: hard as the game mix 3D and 2D graphics)


Start FPSE
Ensure that all plugins are set in
Plugin menu:
plugin/gpuw3d.dll
plugin/spupeops.dll
plugin/joykey.dll
plugin/joynull.dll
plugin/cdimage.dll
plugin/parnull.dll

[ Start ]
Select your CD image. For me it was SLUS_005.51.bin

It works :-)

Alain
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Old 13 October 2017, 20:26   #38
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This is excellent !! I knew someone would make this possible some how! Only I haven't tried that rather complicated procedure yet.

My Customised Tower Amiga 1200 has PPC 240/256 603e with RTG OS4.1 < You would think this to be powerful enough to run Playstation version?

Last edited by MigaTech; 14 October 2017 at 01:48.
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Old 13 October 2017, 22:35   #39
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I'd like to share my opinion a bit. Obviously I think that any attempt to port such a game makes little to no sense (for various reasons) but definitely not because it's out of Amiga's reach! In fact I know for sure that a pretty faithful conversion could be made and run perfectly fine on a mere 030 (plus a NON 3d CGX card if you'd like true color) and here's why:

1) Firstly, PSX's native 320x240 resolution is a non issue for any Amiga classic.
2) The game uses pre-rendered static backdrops, so there's no scrolling involved (nor any background animations).
3) There's no need for realtime 3d calculations for enemies and characters, these can also be pre-rendered 2d bobs. The game's perspective and small depth of field helps a lot here. PSX rarily does any notable scaling to the characters in each single screen. This means that the RAM overhead for exporting each one can be kept -relatively- low with some smart compromises.
4) The game never puts more than 3 moving objects on screen. Blood effects can be made into sprites (16 colors are more than enough) which adds next to zero burden to cpu.
5) Generally gameplay is quite slow paced. Even in less than 20fps, the game will still be perfectly playable.

Overall, I fail to see any solid reason that would justify the need of a high-end Amiga for such a port! Literally, Resident evil 1 is the least taxing game I can think of for PSX's power! Of course from this statement to actually porting such a beast (with all it's cutscenes and animations) would be a gargantuan task. But this is most notably an issue of will/manpower/relevance, i.e. has nothing to do with Amiga's or PSX's abilities...
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Old 13 October 2017, 23:11   #40
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This is my thought to prerender everything put might not quite work as I'm pretty sure the PSX uses real 3D objects and and all the prerendered sprites throughout the game would take up a lot of space.

Someone started a Protect on Atari - did they get as far as 3D objects? Anyone know.

There's also a non 3D RE demo for mega drive looks quite cool.

Love RE 1,2,3 and Alone in the dark - not really seen anything that I like the look of recently any suggestions?

Last edited by Retro1234; 13 October 2017 at 23:17.
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