Tape 64

Steve · 06 January 2003, 18:00

This isn't an Amiga application but it is sort of Commodore related. I'm trying to create .TAP files out of my original C64 Dizzy tapes. However to be able to convert the .WAV files into .TAP files I need to get hold of this program called Tape 64. I've looked all over on the net but all the sites have been removed.

Does anyone have this small utility?

Steve · 06 January 2003, 18:25

After a great deal of hunting I've managed to track it down.

Daz · 06 January 2003, 21:01

YOU ARE THE HUNTER!

Twistin'Ghost · 07 January 2003, 04:52

I tried making some TAP files from some of my C64 tapes, but it was a complete disaster. The docs said someting about the files having to be in mono, but I dumped them from a stereo signal, then converted to mono. If what you do works, let me know so I can do the same. Unless I use a mono mini-phono plug into the sound card...

turk182 · 07 January 2003, 09:51

I did this a year or 2 back with little or no problem. The only ones that didnt seem to work were really old tapes or tapes that needed alignment.
I used a walkman hooked up to me PC soundcard & goldwave software (This lets you sort out all that 8 bit mono stuff automatically) on the PC. It worked fine but I couldnt 'align' the heads of the walkman for those really dodgy games

. , Still I got the the ones I really wanted over!

Steve · 07 January 2003, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
I tried making some TAP files from some of my C64 tapes, but it was a complete disaster. The docs said someting about the files having to be in mono, but I dumped them from a stereo signal, then converted to mono. If what you do works, let me know so I can do the same. Unless I use a mono mini-phono plug into the sound card...

I got it working about a year go. I remember it took me about 4 hours so I wrote it all down in a text file. Sods law meant that I deleted said file so I had to learn all over again. I wrote a new text file last night as I went along. It took me about 2 hours this time. I'll stick the text file in the zone for you Twist so hopefully it will be of some help. This is the tools I used.

1. (old) Saisho DR10 Datacorder
A great piece of hardware perfect for c64 tape copying.

2. Sound Blaster Live! 1024
3. Sound Forge 6.0 (To record the WAV file)
4. Tape 64 (To convert the WAV to a TAP)

This is taken from the Tape 64 Readme file:

It is highly recommended to use mono-recordings. Using a stereo-recording tape64 mixes the two channels into one. This may cause bad results when the channels vary in level and are shifted.

§ane · 07 January 2003, 19:53

Eager to begin preserving my C64 tapes, I did have a bunch of questions to ask, but I've narrowed it down to two.

1. Is it possible to yield a bit-identical TAP image from multiple recordings of the same, or a duplicate, tape?

2. I gather TAP cannot or does not preserve copy-protection, is there likely to be a C.A.P.S. equivalent for cassettes? Can the same technology be applied, I wonder.

tomcat666 · 08 January 2003, 10:17

Well, there IS somehow similar technology available. I did the similar thing for ZX Spectrum some years ago, which was the TZX format. This format is able to preserve ALL Spectrum tapes in the form that is as close to a MASTER tape as possible. It is able to preserve all timings, pauses, weird loaders, etc. and the ZX Community is widely using and it became tape standard over the years.

I also did the same for C64 - I added some extensions to the TZX format which enabled it to store C64 tapes the same way. I also did the tools for this, admitably using only a hand-full of loaders that were widely available back then. It worked perfectly. The files were about 10 times smaller than TAPs are and they preserved all information perfectly. The C64 community however did not accept this (probably because it evloved from a ZX thingy) and none of the emulators at that time supported it.
Since then there have been quite a lot of tools that produced "CLEANED UP" versions of TAP files - tools like FINALTAP which supports about 90% of all available C64 loaders and recognises, cleans them up and it even can do checksum checks to see if everything is OK with them. The author, however, said he could use TZX format to store the files in, but since it is not used by any emulators he won't do that.

Anyway, if you look at the structure that TAP format represents it is not much better (information wise) than normal WAV or VOC file is (for c64 purposes), while a format like TZX (you can see its definition on www.worldofspectrum.org) is much more compact, it represents a DATA view of the file (you can edit the blocks and see whats in them) and also includes MUCH more information about the tape than any other format (you can include TXT files inside it, Pokes, pictures, hardware information, tape positioning commands, you can even do loops, etc.)

Oh well, enough from me ;-)

Steve · 08 January 2003, 23:55

Hey excellent. Thanks for the mention of FinalTap tomcat. I thought that FinalTap was a rock band! :P
I downloaded it and tried it out and I love it. I've optimized a load of my TAP's and found some that have fatal errors that just don't seem to be fixed. Does that mean the real tape is buggered. I tried Sampling the tape twice but got the same error in FinalTap. Bugger. Still that is a very handy tool. I'm now trying to create as many perfect TAP's as possible. Cheers.

fiath · 09 January 2003, 01:17

Quote:

Originally posted by §ane
2. I gather TAP cannot or does not preserve copy-protection, is there likely to be a C.A.P.S. equivalent for cassettes? Can the same technology be applied, I wonder.

Yes, TZX as pointed out.

No, unfotuately the same technology cannot be applied since tapes are an inherently analogue recording medium (recorded as sound), where as disks are digital in that they store 0's and 1's.

A few people asked us about this subject, since it would be great to see a tool tell if a *tape* has been modified since the original "mastering".

But this is likely not possible, and even if it was possible it would be a very different technique to accomplish it. (clear-ness of sound? - I don't know!

)

However, of course C64 *disks* can be preserved by CAPS, something we plan to turn our attentions to once we have Amiga sorted out.

They are a GCR (not MFM) encoded media.

icycool · 24 January 2003, 04:09

Tomcat,
I would like to speak to you further about your proposed T64(new) format.

I have about 150 tapes here I would like to dump and perhaps a decent digital tape analogue format could be defined and promoted thruout the c64 community.

On another note, recording in stereo with a decent mono signal merger may fix a lot of tape alignment problems!.

tomcat666 · 24 January 2003, 07:41

Hey !

Sure thing. My email is tomcat@sgn.net . Give me a mail and I will put you on a mailing list for the format, where it is currently being dusscussed how to handle TZX format in the future, because C64 community didn't pick it up (those blocks will probably get deprecated) and there will also be a CPC only derivate of it. If you think you can persuade C64 emulator authors to use your new format you are most welcome ;-)

Ziaxx · 31 January 2003, 17:39

Does anyone know if it's possible to convert TAP files into T64, PRG or similar? For example if you make a TAP of a cassette with several files ("turbo files") with no copy protection or anything.

tomcat666 · 31 January 2003, 19:03

Yes, it is possible. The easiest way is to load them into the emulator and SAVE the files to disk image from there...

06 January 2003, 18:00	#1
Steve I Identify as an Ewok Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Lincolnshire Age: 45 Posts: 2,356	Tape 64 This isn't an Amiga application but it is sort of Commodore related. I'm trying to create .TAP files out of my original C64 Dizzy tapes. However to be able to convert the .WAV files into .TAP files I need to get hold of this program called Tape 64. I've looked all over on the net but all the sites have been removed. Does anyone have this small utility?

08 January 2003, 23:55	#9
Steve I Identify as an Ewok Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Lincolnshire Age: 45 Posts: 2,356	Excellent Hey excellent. Thanks for the mention of FinalTap tomcat. I thought that FinalTap was a rock band! :P I downloaded it and tried it out and I love it. I've optimized a load of my TAP's and found some that have fatal errors that just don't seem to be fixed. Does that mean the real tape is buggered. I tried Sampling the tape twice but got the same error in FinalTap. Bugger. Still that is a very handy tool. I'm now trying to create as many perfect TAP's as possible. Cheers.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
CDROM and Tape on A500?	Ironman	support.Hardware	4	08 October 2004 21:55
Starglider Cassette Tape	killergorilla	Retrogaming General Discussion	9	09 January 2004 14:40
Tape Drive in Winuae	quicksylver	support.WinUAE	7	11 August 2003 04:09
Amiga Primer on tape	Oscar Castillo	Nostalgia & memories	0	02 September 2002 23:07

06 January 2003, 18:25	#2
Steve I Identify as an Ewok Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Lincolnshire Age: 45 Posts: 2,356	After a great deal of hunting I've managed to track it down.

06 January 2003, 21:01	#3
Daz Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Blackburn Age: 42 Posts: 174	YOU ARE THE HUNTER!

07 January 2003, 04:52	#4
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	I tried making some TAP files from some of my C64 tapes, but it was a complete disaster. The docs said someting about the files having to be in mono, but I dumped them from a stereo signal, then converted to mono. If what you do works, let me know so I can do the same. Unless I use a mono mini-phono plug into the sound card...

07 January 2003, 09:51	#5
turk182 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: london Posts: 188	I did this a year or 2 back with little or no problem. The only ones that didnt seem to work were really old tapes or tapes that needed alignment. I used a walkman hooked up to me PC soundcard & goldwave software (This lets you sort out all that 8 bit mono stuff automatically) on the PC. It worked fine but I couldnt 'align' the heads of the walkman for those really dodgy games . , Still I got the the ones I really wanted over!

07 January 2003, 19:53	#7
§ane Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: . Age: 44 Posts: 246	Eager to begin preserving my C64 tapes, I did have a bunch of questions to ask, but I've narrowed it down to two. 1. Is it possible to yield a bit-identical TAP image from multiple recordings of the same, or a duplicate, tape? 2. I gather TAP cannot or does not preserve copy-protection, is there likely to be a C.A.P.S. equivalent for cassettes? Can the same technology be applied, I wonder.

08 January 2003, 10:17	#8
tomcat666 Retro Freak Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Slovenia Age: 51 Posts: 1,647	Well, there IS somehow similar technology available. I did the similar thing for ZX Spectrum some years ago, which was the TZX format. This format is able to preserve ALL Spectrum tapes in the form that is as close to a MASTER tape as possible. It is able to preserve all timings, pauses, weird loaders, etc. and the ZX Community is widely using and it became tape standard over the years. I also did the same for C64 - I added some extensions to the TZX format which enabled it to store C64 tapes the same way. I also did the tools for this, admitably using only a hand-full of loaders that were widely available back then. It worked perfectly. The files were about 10 times smaller than TAPs are and they preserved all information perfectly. The C64 community however did not accept this (probably because it evloved from a ZX thingy) and none of the emulators at that time supported it. Since then there have been quite a lot of tools that produced "CLEANED UP" versions of TAP files - tools like FINALTAP which supports about 90% of all available C64 loaders and recognises, cleans them up and it even can do checksum checks to see if everything is OK with them. The author, however, said he could use TZX format to store the files in, but since it is not used by any emulators he won't do that. Anyway, if you look at the structure that TAP format represents it is not much better (information wise) than normal WAV or VOC file is (for c64 purposes), while a format like TZX (you can see its definition on www.worldofspectrum.org) is much more compact, it represents a DATA view of the file (you can edit the blocks and see whats in them) and also includes MUCH more information about the tape than any other format (you can include TXT files inside it, Pokes, pictures, hardware information, tape positioning commands, you can even do loops, etc.) Oh well, enough from me ;-)

24 January 2003, 04:09	#11
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Tomcat, I would like to speak to you further about your proposed T64(new) format. I have about 150 tapes here I would like to dump and perhaps a decent digital tape analogue format could be defined and promoted thruout the c64 community. On another note, recording in stereo with a decent mono signal merger may fix a lot of tape alignment problems!.

24 January 2003, 07:41	#12
tomcat666 Retro Freak Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Slovenia Age: 51 Posts: 1,647	Hey ! Sure thing. My email is tomcat@sgn.net . Give me a mail and I will put you on a mailing list for the format, where it is currently being dusscussed how to handle TZX format in the future, because C64 community didn't pick it up (those blocks will probably get deprecated) and there will also be a CPC only derivate of it. If you think you can persuade C64 emulator authors to use your new format you are most welcome ;-)

31 January 2003, 17:39	#13
Ziaxx Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 90	Does anyone know if it's possible to convert TAP files into T64, PRG or similar? For example if you make a TAP of a cassette with several files ("turbo files") with no copy protection or anything.

31 January 2003, 19:03	#14
tomcat666 Retro Freak Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Slovenia Age: 51 Posts: 1,647	Yes, it is possible. The easiest way is to load them into the emulator and SAVE the files to disk image from there...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)