Should I buy an Amiga 600?

[T_hairy_bootson]

Originally Posted by ant512

For the average retro gamer, the A500 is useless. You can't use WHDLoad if you haven't got a bucket of RAM and a hard drive, and you can't build up a library of games unless you put your trust in slowly degrading floppy disks.

Steady on... plenty of us "average retro gamers" do not have anything over an A500 and I would regard it as far from "useless". Just because you can find any amiga you want for a dime a dozen in England it seems you have become spoilt for choice...

By that reasoning any commodore64 owner without a HDD solution should visit the dump...

[Unknown_K]

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Steady on... plenty of us "average retro gamers" do not have anything over an A500 and I would regard it as far from "useless". Just because you can find any amiga you want for a dime a dozen in England it seems you have become spoilt for choice...

By that reasoning any commodore64 owner without a HDD solution should visit the dump...

I agree 100%

An A500 (usually found with A501 memory expansion installed) is dirt cheap and plays the vast majority of Amiga games with no problems.

While an A1200 is a nice machine and very upgradable you also have to sink bucketloads of money into it to get it where you want it.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Just because you can find any amiga you want for a dime a dozen in England it seems you have become spoilt for choice...

I don't live in England, and finding my A1200 wasn't that easy, but it was possible and I did it in the end, for quite a nice price too (only 150 us dollars for an almost new a1200 030@50 system, with a 1GB HD, 32MB of fast RAM and loads of other things!).

I think the ammount of money you invest in an A1200 is automatically "refunded" when you forget about disk drives that don't work, floppy discs that lose their data, games that are incompatible with your machine, relokicks, degraders and shit. An A500 is far from being "worthless" but in the end it will be a bigger time and money investment, I think (time is money folks). I was an advocate of diskswapping, but after I tried WHDload I never wanted to go back. With the life I have, wasting time loading and discswapping and relokicking,etc, would render my Amiga entertainment to non-existance!

It is well known that buying a stock A1200 and expanding it is much more expensive than finding an already expanded system and buy it like that. This is the choice to go. It takes more time to find such a thing but it's worthwhile to wait.

Originally Posted by ant512

Personally, from a modern perspective, I think the A1200 is the best model. It is the easiest Amiga to upgrade to a reasonable state, as it is compatible with off-the-shelf parts. All A1200 trapdoor upgrades use 72-pin SIMMs, as opposed to those weird ZIP things in the big-box machines and custom memory boards for the A500; it also has a standard 2.5" IDE connector and an approximation of a standard PCMCIA interface.

The best A1200 setup is the one Eny- describes (don't forget a 16MB SIMM, though). It's not too expensive to buy, it's easy to put together, and it's capable of running pretty much anything you can throw at it.

It may have sold the most units, but the A500 is far too large, is nearly impossible to upgrade (unless you're prepared to pay over the odds for flaky hardware on eBay), and is hampered by its 512K/1MB of chip RAM and OCS/ECS chipset (depending on whether you've got an A500 or an A500+).

For the average retro gamer, the A500 is useless. You can't use WHDLoad if you haven't got a bucket of RAM and a hard drive, and you can't build up a library of games unless you put your trust in slowly degrading floppy disks. For serious users (who, for reasons best known to themselves, insist on using 20 year old hardware instead of investing in a decent PC/Mac), the A500 is again limited because of its abysmal speed and memory limitations.

As for the A600, I had two (and sold them, as I ran out of space). I prefer it to the A500 - again, the IDE interface and PCMCIA adaptor weigh in its favour, plus its small size makes it extremely useful as a machine you can carry around.

Tell all of this crap to my mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power. I installed a custom made Zorro II and CPU slots board. I plugged into the CPU slot a Blizzard 060 board with 128 megs of 32-bit memory. The on-board SCSI controller has a 4 GB hard drive plugged into it. I am running the Kickstart 3.1 ROM and Workbench 3.9. My Amiga 500 Tower of Power also has two Teac High-Density disk drives installed. I also installed a FF/SD so that I can hook up a SVGA monitor. I have a Picasso IV plugged into the Zorro II slot. Below is a picture of my Mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power.

[Unknown_K]

Originally Posted by Akira

I don't live in England, and finding my A1200 wasn't that easy, but it was possible and I did it in the end, for quite a nice price too (only 150 us dollars for an almost new a1200 030@50 system, with a 1GB HD, 32MB of fast RAM and loads of other things!).

I think the ammount of money you invest in an A1200 is automatically "refunded" when you forget about disk drives that don't work, floppy discs that lose their data, games that are incompatible with your machine, relokicks, degraders and shit. An A500 is far from being "worthless" but in the end it will be a bigger time and money investment, I think (time is money folks). I was an advocate of diskswapping, but after I tried WHDload I never wanted to go back. With the life I have, wasting time loading and discswapping and relokicking,etc, would render my Amiga entertainment to non-existance!

It is well known that buying a stock A1200 and expanding it is much more expensive than finding an already expanded system and buy it like that. This is the choice to go. It takes more time to find such a thing but it's worthwhile to wait.

Well an A2000 with SCSI controller is also a good bet, quite a few of the multiple floppy games can be HD installed.

There is some fun in finding addon hardware for the A1200 and doing the installs yourself, compared to just buying the hardware all done up.

Quite a few retro gamersd are into hardware also and collect boxed software, which is why I have a 500,2000HD,1200 and a few bookshleves full of boxed games.

In the end time is money if your at work, this is a hobby you know so have fun with it!

[ant512]

Originally Posted by DoomMaster

Tell all of this crap to my mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power. I installed a custom made Zorro II and CPU slots board. I plugged into the CPU slot a Blizzard 060 board with 128 megs of 32-bit memory. The on-board SCSI controller has a 4 GB hard drive plugged into it. I am running the Kickstart 3.1 ROM and Workbench 3.9. My Amiga 500 Tower of Power also has two Teac High-Density disk drives installed. I also installed a FF/SD so that I can hook up a SVGA monitor. I have a Picasso IV plugged into the Zorro II slot. Below is a picture of my Mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power.

If you're really going to upgrade, the A500 still isn't a very good choice. Here are the specs for my A1200 tower:

- Blizzard 1260 @ 50MHz
- 96MB fast RAM
- SCSI-II kit
- 20GB IDE hard disk
- 48x24x48x ID CDRW
- IDE ZIP-100 drive
- EIDE'99 buffered IDE interface
- ZIV busboard
- X-Surf network card
- CV64/3D
- SD/FF
- Prelude1200 clockport soundcard
- A4000 keyboard
- Multiface 3 I/O expander (2x high-speed serial, 1x high-speed parallel)
- Two floppy drives (one with Cyclone hardware)
- Kickstart 3.1
- Standard 15" SVGA monitor

There might be some other stuff in there that I've missed (I had three hard drives at one point, but pulled at least one of them out because it was getting silly, and I never used Debian anyway).

In terms of expansion options, the A1200 beats the A500. In terms of ease-of-upgrade, the A1200 again beats the A500 (one Power Computing-modified tower case and one standard ZIV busboard gives me a system that's essentially an A4000T, sans Zorro III). It also has the advantage of 2MB chip RAM as standard and more advanced native graphics modes.

So, the unexpanded A1200 is a better machine for gamers than the unexpanded A500 (faster CPU, more memory, AGA graphics). The expanded A1200 is also a better machine than a massively-upgraded A500.

In fact, your only real problem with the A1200 seems to be that it uses SMT instead of socketed chips; whilst this may be a problem if you want to replace individual components, it really doesn't make any difference to the majority of people who just want a quick game of Alien Breed. In fact, socketed chips have an annoying habit of coming loose, and it's probably cheaper to buy another Amiga than find an individual chip these days anyway.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by DoomMaster

Tell all of this crap to my mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power.

Tower of Power, ha haha.

As I guessed, since you have failed to reply to my post with any ACTUAL facts that deem the A600, A1200 and A4000s as "inferior hardware", or explaining how more sold means better hardware, you are just one of those guys who think are "hardcore" for "maxing out" an Amiga 500 and pretending it's the best hardware ever conceived. Retroman's A2000 system is eons better than what you have there, and he's not putting funny "power" names on it and boasting around saying it's better than a maxed out A1200.


I think your real problem with these machines is that somehow you got stuck with an A500, and feeling jealous of those with newer machines, you decided to grab a nice A500, stick it in an ugly arse PC-style case, and put some expansions in it (which are nothing to call home for, actually), and pretend to be mega hardcore and so super cool.

Welcome to the real world. The Amiga 1200 is a much better platform than your "Tower of Power"... hahaha, the name gives it up isn't it?

[Galaxy]

Tell all of this crap to my mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power. I installed a custom made Zorro II and CPU slots board. I plugged into the CPU slot a Blizzard 060 board with 128 megs of 32-bit memory. The on-board SCSI controller has a 4 GB hard drive plugged into it. I am running the Kickstart 3.1 ROM and Workbench 3.9. My Amiga 500 Tower of Power also has two Teac High-Density disk drives installed. I also installed a FF/SD so that I can hook up a SVGA monitor. I have a Picasso IV plugged into the Zorro II slot. Below is a picture of my Mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power.

You machine could hardly be called an A500 - it does not sound like you are using much of it anymore.

I've got several A500s, but they only get used to get real stubborn games to work.

[Unknown_K]

What the hell ever happened to the beauty and simplicity of an A500? You guys like throwing specs out without even saying what you do on those rigs. I can cram 256MB on my A1200 but exactly what would be the point of that except bragging rights (mine has 16mb and thats plenty for games)?

Oh and another thing, if you have invested $1000+ (my guess) on a tricked out towered A500 with a flicker fixer/scan doubler why are you using a crappy old 15" monitor?

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Unknown_K

You guys like throwing specs out without even saying what you do on those rigs.

Not me, besides my spec is rather modest. I use my A1200 for Deluxe Paint IV AGA, PPaint, AHX, MusicLine, Eagleplayer, Videotracker, MNU3 and other proggies. Also WHDLoad gaming from time to time! even 128MB of RAM would be a waste on me, though I could really use them for some mad things with Videotracker and realtime video. Hmmm.. but those SIMMs are so expensive.

Oh and another thing, if you have invested $1000+ (my guess) on a tricked out towered A500 with a flicker fixer/scan doubler why are you using a crappy old 15" monitor?

Ha ha ha ha ha! Take THAT and Party!

Apparently, all that power is NEEDED to play Battle Squadron on a 1084 (not even S!) monitor. No wonder it didn't run in my Amiga *snicker*

[Unknown_K]

The 1084S os a bit overrated, my machines have seperate speakers (My 1084 is mono). I do have a NEC 3ds connected to my A1200 since it can do alll the commodore screen modes and has a nice dot pitch (for the time anyway). But If I had a flicker fixer/scan doubler I would use a 19" monitor on my 1200.

[Amiga1992]

The flickerfixer is useless with a 1084, since it cannot display anything above 15Khz.

The NEC is indeed a fine multiscan monitor.

Originally Posted by ant512

If you're really going to upgrade, the A500 still isn't a very good choice. Here are the specs for my A1200 tower:

- Blizzard 1260 @ 50MHz
- 96MB fast RAM
- SCSI-II kit
- 20GB IDE hard disk
- 48x24x48x ID CDRW
- IDE ZIP-100 drive
- EIDE'99 buffered IDE interface
- ZIV busboard
- X-Surf network card
- CV64/3D
- SD/FF
- Prelude1200 clockport soundcard
- A4000 keyboard
- Multiface 3 I/O expander (2x high-speed serial, 1x high-speed parallel)
- Two floppy drives (one with Cyclone hardware)
- Kickstart 3.1
- Standard 15" SVGA monitor

There might be some other stuff in there that I've missed (I had three hard drives at one point, but pulled at least one of them out because it was getting silly, and I never used Debian anyway).

In terms of expansion options, the A1200 beats the A500. In terms of ease-of-upgrade, the A1200 again beats the A500 (one Power Computing-modified tower case and one standard ZIV busboard gives me a system that's essentially an A4000T, sans Zorro III). It also has the advantage of 2MB chip RAM as standard and more advanced native graphics modes.

So, the unexpanded A1200 is a better machine for gamers than the unexpanded A500 (faster CPU, more memory, AGA graphics). The expanded A1200 is also a better machine than a massively-upgraded A500.

In fact, your only real problem with the A1200 seems to be that it uses SMT instead of socketed chips; whilst this may be a problem if you want to replace individual components, it really doesn't make any difference to the majority of people who just want a quick game of Alien Breed. In fact, socketed chips have an annoying habit of coming loose, and it's probably cheaper to buy another Amiga than find an individual chip these days anyway.

I had an Amiga 1200 computer. I did not like it and I was smart enough to observe that the Amiga 1200 is a low quality piece of crap. The Amiga 500 is a much higher quality and better built machine. Anyway, why would I want another Amiga 1200 when I have 4 - Amiga 2500s, 1 - Amiga 500 Tower, 1 - rare Premier Amiga 500, 1 - rare Amiga 2200, and a rare Amiga 3000 Tower in brand new condition with a mint box? The only other Amiga computers that I want is an Amiga 1000 new in mint box and an Amiga 1500 new in mint box. I sold my AmigaOne G4 computer because it is a low quality piece of crap and because it is NOT a true Amiga computer. I own a computer shop and I work on Amiga and Atari ST computers all the time. So, I tell you that the Amiga 1200, 600, 4000, and 4000T are junk and I refuse to work on them. I only repair and upgrade the higher quality Amiga computers. When my customers walk into my shop the first thing they notice is the Flagship Amiga which is proudly displayed in a glass case with a spot light shining on it- The Amiga 2000.

I also work on Atari ST computers, PC computers, Commodore and Atari computers, and Macintosh computers. I am a Class 4 Electronics Assembler and a Class 4 Mechanical Assembler by trade. I also actually worked for Commodore themselves, so I do know what I am talking about when it comes to these kinds of matters. You guys would be wise to listen to what I have to say.

[Amiga1992]

Behold, my KELLOG'S FROSTIES BOX OF ALMIGHTY 9 VITAMIN POWER!

I have modified it with all sorts of cool mega hardcore mods so it can accept any sort of cereal inside not just frosted cornflakes! And I have also modified the case with an extension to allow 200 more grams to be fit inside! One just has to notice Tony's biggest smile ever to know I am grrrrrrright!!. Notice how I use a foreign box, because I'm so super hardcore and everybody knows japanese stuff is better.
(What do you mean saying that's not japanese? I know japanese when I see it! TRUST ME)

It also has a shimmer-fixer/sugardoubler that will reduce the glare on the sugar while doubling its sugary taste, so I can get fatter faster, but with no harm to my eyes if I happen to eat my cereal under a merciless sun.

It's got a ziplock bag inside instead of that cack it comes bundled in with the cereal, this increases the protein-performance and crunchyfactor about 10568.78 percent!

I'm so glad I upgraded this box of Kellog's Frosties, for it is the best quality box out there. It's the best selling cereal box isn't it? Besides, I am smart enough to know that the box of Capt'n Crunch is nothing but a load of recycled rubbish. I know I worked for kellog's so you would be wise to hear to what I have to say (that is, if you could hear me, I'm writing).

[Unknown_K]

Originally Posted by DoomMaster

I had an Amiga 1200 computer. I did not like it and I was smart enough to observe that the Amiga 1200 is a low quality piece of crap. The Amiga 500 is a much higher quality and better built machine. Anyway, why would I want another Amiga 1200 when I have 4 - Amiga 2500s, 1 - Amiga 500 Tower, 1 - rare Premier Amiga 500, 1 - rare Amiga 2200, and a rare Amiga 3000 Tower in brand new condition with a mint box? The only other Amiga computers that I want is an Amiga 1000 new in mint box and an Amiga 1500 new in mint box. I sold my AmigaOne G4 computer because it is a low quality piece of crap and because it is NOT a true Amiga computer. I own a computer shop and I work on Amiga and Atari ST computers all the time. So, I tell you that the Amiga 1200, 600, 4000, and 4000T are junk and I refuse to work on them. I only repair and upgrade the higher quality Amiga computers. When my customers walk into my shop the first thing they notice is the Flagship Amiga which is proudly displayed in a glass case with a spot light shining on it- The Amiga 2000.

I also work on Atari ST computers, PC computers, Commodore and Atari computers, and Macintosh computers. I am a Class 4 Electronics Assembler and a Class 4 Mechanical Assembler by trade. I also actually worked for Commodore themselves, so I do know what I am talking about when it comes to these kinds of matters. You guys would be wise to listen to what I have to say.

People might listen to you if you actual made a comment about why you think a piece of equipment is crap instead of spouting off some trade certificates you have followed by "trust me I know". In my profession (engineering) I have worked with quite a few people who didn't know what they were talking about followed by the "trust me" statement. Either back your statements up with some facts or don't make them at all.

I CAN back up my statements with "facts", but are you sure that you want to go there? Afterall, I am The DoomMaster! Just what kind of "facts" are you looking for, because believe me when I tell you, that by the time I finish stating all of the facts about the Amiga 1200 computer people here will finally realize just what a piece of low quality crap it really is. And when I finish stating all of the facts about the Amiga 2000 Series people will finally realize that it is THE best Amiga model to own. Now, do you really want to go there?!

[Amiga1992]

Ok I'll set this up for you, I want to read the outcome:

"OH YES PLEASE DOOMMASTER, PLEASE TELL US! TELL US THE TRUTH ABOUT AMIGA COMPUTERS! After all, you are the DoomMaster!"

[Pyromania]

Originally Posted by DoomMaster

my Mighty Amiga 500 Tower of Power.

Can your mighty A500 run a Video Toaster 4000 with color real-time effects?

Originally Posted by Pyromania

Can your mighty A500 run a Video Toaster 4000 with color real-time effects?

I do have a Video Toaster 4000 installed in one of my Amiga 2500 computers, but whenever I need to do any serious video work I just use my Pentium 4 PC. Now guys, I am not trying to start any flame wars here and maybe I have gotten off to a bad start here. Please forgive me for that. I am actually a very nice guy and I am always willing to help people with my knowledge.

[Amiga1992]

So where are the earth-shaking facts?

(I don't like premade phrases, but... "I knew it")