KryoFlux Public Beta 1.0 - AVAILABLE NOW! - Page 6

mr.vince · 21 March 2010, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loedown

Computer developers and well written documentation, I thought the two were mutually exclusive

I think some sort of proper rendering tool should be eventually made available that can write a stream file back into and ADF or D64, better to stick to known formats IMHO if possible?

you already can do this today. we just promote the stream files because the relation is like raw camera files and jpegs. you can always create the latter based on the raw file.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pheonix

Actually, for C64/128 materials, especially the copy protected stuff, the G64 format is better. It produces non-standard tracks much more accurately. Though the D64 is smaller, and would be preferable for disks that have no on disk copy protection.

yes, you're right. most (not all) protections can be stored in g64. however, you are only storing the symptoms, not the cause. unfortunately, many implementations of the format in e.g. emulators are flawed. therefore i happen to have up to three g64 of the same game. one for vice, the other one for ccs64 and another one for writing back to disk with nibtools. i've had lenghty discussions because of this on a german board so i am not willing to enter on another one.

we think that supporting g64 will give the wrong impression of having something preserved which is not the case with this format. we are sure this can be done better and will be therefore working on ipf support of c64 disks. however, with the host app being open, people can write their own g64 exporter. i think it's understandable we do not want to spent our limited manpower on things others can do as well.

mr.vince · 16 April 2010, 19:50

Ha, how about these:

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Supamax · 17 April 2010, 00:57

BEAUTIFUL!!!

Loedown · 17 April 2010, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Ha, how about these:

Attachment 24995

Attachment 24996

Ok, so the protos are done, when can the salivating hordes get their hands on them and how much?

mr.vince · 17 April 2010, 08:01

We have to do more testing, we don't want to find something does not work when we have a couple of them out there. The software currently can not write, so we must produce a custom test firmware which will enable us to test all lines involved in this.

We are also working on distribution channels and pricing. One idea is to start a non-binding preoder, so anyone can say "yes, I want one" and we'll send out emails when the product is available. This will help calculate the demand.

Loedown · 17 April 2010, 13:52

The demand is calculable

ceztko · 17 April 2010, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

The software currently can not write...

I have a question about Kyroflux early boards that will be sold: how can you be sure that the current board design is suitable for writing (once the sw is ready)?

Supamax · 17 April 2010, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loedown

"[...]the salivating hordes[...]"

mr.vince · 17 April 2010, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceztko

I have a question about Kyroflux early boards that will be sold: how can you be sure that the current board design is suitable for writing (once the sw is ready)?

Easy: we can and we can't. The very same board design was able to write (more or less reliably) with the C20 project. Now we added drivers, which will change behaviour (e.g. broke compatibility with C20 project). BUT: We can use a test firmware to test the lines used for writing. If they function... writing should be fine.

If you want to be sure and need proof, you have to wait buying or bulding a board until the version of KF with write support is out.

gizmomelb · 19 April 2010, 13:48

may I suggest/request for the pre-order expression of interest, an (possibly cheaper?) option for a disk emulator that doesn't support real 'floppy drives' but can read/write images to the SD card, so that people who aren't interested in archiving disks (or have none to archive) can use the device to actually play game disk imagess off their SD cards?

that way you'll gauge the market for both. (as a side note, the 80 pre-orders for Jeff's new HXC floppy emulator sold within a few weeks and they were 60 EUROs each!).

pretty please?

fiath · 19 April 2010, 17:30

Nice thought, but that seems to be exactly what HxC is for, and can do very well right now.

I can see why somebody might just want one board that does everything, but KryoFlux is solving a very different problem. In fact, the only thing I can think is common in the two requirements (I might be wrong) is that they both require external devices that connect via USB...

You might also notice that the test boards do not even have an SD slot - this is intentional to keep costs down.

mr.vince · 19 April 2010, 21:23

I'd like to add that we really like what Jeff is doing and he's supported us during the development of KF with hints and tips. I don't see why we should try to undermine his efforts.

KF is for reading data off disks or creating clones (as soon as writing gets implemented) to replace faulty media or revive otherwise dead software.

Slayer · 20 April 2010, 09:27

I'll be happy to pay upfront PM me details

Loedown · 20 April 2010, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.vince

I'd like to add that we really like what Jeff is doing and he's supported us during the development of KF with hints and tips. I don't see why we should try to undermine his efforts.

The scene is only small(ish), trying to cut out others will only force people to take sides and divide the community, one of the huge advantages of the Amiga community is that most people do the right thing and people help others instead of trying to cut-throat one another.

kipper2k · 20 April 2010, 14:45

I think Kryoflux is a good project and now i got a bit more free time i'll do some testing. There are only a few people producing HW for the Amiga now and i think its a good thing to try to support all of them in one way or another. I did buy Jeff's SD floppy emulator (they went fast!). I still like the idea of keeping the real floppy drive alive though, i think its a big part of what the Amiga is.

mr.vince · 20 April 2010, 23:20

Some more tech info.

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Slayer · 21 April 2010, 10:49

I've offered to pay upfront what else can I do

mr.vince · 21 April 2010, 11:06

We can't sell anything until we've got something to sell. You know, we take this serious. People are going to buy something, and they are expecting something to happen when they use it. It's easy to repair software, but you can't fix hardware with an online update.

-=ARA=- · 22 April 2010, 11:01

Hi

I noticed when looking at the picture, that there were no mounting holes on the board.
Would have been nice to have.

And also, is psu and cables going to be included when you order,
or is it just the board?
And if not, what kind of power supply would be required?

Other than that, congratulations on the progress you have made!

/Andreas

Supamax · 23 April 2010, 04:39

I see that the board supports two floppy drives...
how does it make use of 2 drives? Are they controlled separately (for example a 3.5" and a 5.25" for different source floppies), or can they be used at the same time, for example for direct floppy copying purposes (original ---> empty floppy copying without disk swapping) ?

In other words, how will exactly Kryoflux make use of the two drives?

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16 April 2010, 19:50	#102
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Ha, how about these:

17 April 2010, 00:57	#103
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Monza, Italy Posts: 2,822	BEAUTIFUL!!!

17 April 2010, 08:01	#105
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	We have to do more testing, we don't want to find something does not work when we have a couple of them out there. The software currently can not write, so we must produce a custom test firmware which will enable us to test all lines involved in this. We are also working on distribution channels and pricing. One idea is to start a non-binding preoder, so anyone can say "yes, I want one" and we'll send out emails when the product is available. This will help calculate the demand.

17 April 2010, 13:52	#106
Loedown Precious & fragile things Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,946	The demand is calculable

19 April 2010, 13:48	#110
gizmomelb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: melbourne Age: 55 Posts: 541	may I suggest/request for the pre-order expression of interest, an (possibly cheaper?) option for a disk emulator that doesn't support real 'floppy drives' but can read/write images to the SD card, so that people who aren't interested in archiving disks (or have none to archive) can use the device to actually play game disk imagess off their SD cards? that way you'll gauge the market for both. (as a side note, the 80 pre-orders for Jeff's new HXC floppy emulator sold within a few weeks and they were 60 EUROs each!). pretty please?

19 April 2010, 17:30	#111
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	Nice thought, but that seems to be exactly what HxC is for, and can do very well right now. I can see why somebody might just want one board that does everything, but KryoFlux is solving a very different problem. In fact, the only thing I can think is common in the two requirements (I might be wrong) is that they both require external devices that connect via USB... You might also notice that the test boards do not even have an SD slot - this is intentional to keep costs down.

19 April 2010, 21:23	#112
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	I'd like to add that we really like what Jeff is doing and he's supported us during the development of KF with hints and tips. I don't see why we should try to undermine his efforts. KF is for reading data off disks or creating clones (as soon as writing gets implemented) to replace faulty media or revive otherwise dead software.

20 April 2010, 09:27	#113
Slayer Amiga Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 56 Posts: 695	I'll be happy to pay upfront PM me details

20 April 2010, 14:45	#115
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	I think Kryoflux is a good project and now i got a bit more free time i'll do some testing. There are only a few people producing HW for the Amiga now and i think its a good thing to try to support all of them in one way or another. I did buy Jeff's SD floppy emulator (they went fast!). I still like the idea of keeping the real floppy drive alive though, i think its a big part of what the Amiga is.

20 April 2010, 23:20	#116
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	Some more tech info.

21 April 2010, 10:49	#117
Slayer Amiga Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 56 Posts: 695	I've offered to pay upfront what else can I do

21 April 2010, 11:06	#118
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	We can't sell anything until we've got something to sell. You know, we take this serious. People are going to buy something, and they are expecting something to happen when they use it. It's easy to repair software, but you can't fix hardware with an online update.

22 April 2010, 11:01	#119
-=ARA=- Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sweden Age: 42 Posts: 53	Hi I noticed when looking at the picture, that there were no mounting holes on the board. Would have been nice to have. And also, is psu and cables going to be included when you order, or is it just the board? And if not, what kind of power supply would be required? Other than that, congratulations on the progress you have made! /Andreas

23 April 2010, 04:39	#120
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Monza, Italy Posts: 2,822	I see that the board supports two floppy drives... how does it make use of 2 drives? Are they controlled separately (for example a 3.5" and a 5.25" for different source floppies), or can they be used at the same time, for example for direct floppy copying purposes (original ---> empty floppy copying without disk swapping) ? In other words, how will exactly Kryoflux make use of the two drives?

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