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Old 17 August 2019, 01:00   #61
Chucky
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OK. Getting started on working on the ReAmiga 3000. I will not show any more progressphotos etc until Amiga34..

but asking the community for input what to do..

now I am moving all passives (resistors, capacitors, transistors, diodes etc) to SMD versions.

BUT as my original idea is to move components from DEAD boards, not building new. should I do the 74F... logic etc as SMD or keep it TH?
SMD would mean you cannot reuse. so adds costs..

and Agnus. 8475 compability would be nice. but again, as I want to be able to move components. how to solve this. it is 22 (!) pins that differs between them..

anyway. input please!

AND Current status:

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Old 17 August 2019, 03:20   #62
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I would have thought having new components wherever possible, and where there was a need for custom chips, these to be taken from donor / dead boards. Thus it leaves less room for end user error and more chance of success with standardised template boards.
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Old 17 August 2019, 08:44   #63
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Can you buy new replacements? Why not go for that if it is an improvement? (Space, or heat, or whatever.)
Stuff that needs to come from dead or NOS: Can it be socketed?

But who am I to command... I am drooling over an AA3000+ version instead. (Wait you say? Yeah well, I have been waiting 5+ years for an FPGA Arcade so that is nothing new to me.)
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Old 17 August 2019, 10:17   #64
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SMD logic cannot be socketed.. while the old DIL can.

AA3000+ well. Hese is on that one :-)

well. will see about SMD logic. it is kinda about time I guess
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Old 17 August 2019, 11:18   #65
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I would go for SMD parts wherever possible. Desoldering DIL components from the old board would be a pain even with a desoldering gun. Much less headache to solder new SMD parts instead. True that SMDs can't be socketed but replacing SMDs is a breeze with a hot air gun.
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Old 17 August 2019, 11:50   #66
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I'd also assume anyone who is going to go through the process of building something quite this high end would be happy to work with SMD stuff.
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Old 17 August 2019, 20:01   #67
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Not in the market for a reamiga 3000 (as I don’t have one and they are expensive) but I am in the market for a reamiga 2000 and my wishlist for either would be pretty similar:

* Eliminate as many out of production parts as possible
* Lower cost as much as is practical
* Simplify
* Sockets for what can be
* Put plenty of memory in
* Add quality of life changes (modern video out, usb, some mass storage interface, etc when possible)
* Leave plenty of (physical) space around anything that can be expanded
* More ROM (including diagnosis stuff)
* (for the A2000 I’d remove unneeded parts such as ISA etc)

Probably a bit ambitious in parts, but it’s not a list of requirements It’s a list for “Jultomten”
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Old 19 August 2019, 02:47   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flekkzo View Post
Not in the market for a reamiga 3000 (as I don’t have one and they are expensive) but I am in the market for a reamiga 2000 and my wishlist for either would be pretty similar:

* Eliminate as many out of production parts as possible
* Lower cost as much as is practical
* Simplify
* Sockets for what can be

[SNIP]
I agree with most of this list, if you are going to all the trouble of making a 'new' Amiga motherboard then it makes sense to improve and modernize it where possible (considering cost and compatibility).

Also if you can make it as cheap and easy for people to turn your motherboard into a working Amiga then that would be a big bonus

As I said over on Amiga.org, eliminating the on-board CPU and FASTRAM is probably worth considering (so it requires an accelerator and possibly a HD controller to be functional)
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Old 19 August 2019, 08:16   #69
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As I said over on Amiga.org, eliminating the on-board CPU and FASTRAM is probably worth considering (so it requires an accelerator and possibly a HD controller to be functional)
Eh, there's only so many CPU cards to go around, and a big chunk of them are the poorly-designed A3640. I'd include a CPU and RAM on the board so it can run standalone -- 68030s are plentiful and cheap, and RAM is cheap. Don't bother with RAM slots though, just solder 128M on the board and call it good. This way you get a nice working ECS Amiga that is good for most purposes and you can upgrade it later if you want to. You can probably eliminate Ramsey for this purpose and roll your own RAM arbiter, would probably be easier than getting Ramsey to play nice with modern replacements.

Number one request for a new A3000 board -- and this is a *TALL* order -- is a replacement for Super Buster that actually works properly. The only attempts I've seen at replacing Super Buster functionality were on that Z3 busboard for the A1200 -- and that just implemented PIO mode.
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Old 19 August 2019, 08:26   #70
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"Don't bother with RAM slots though, just solder 128M on the board and call it good"

thing is that it is not "just solder it on" you need to design a new memorycontroller etc.
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Old 19 August 2019, 08:51   #71
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Eh, there's only so many CPU cards to go around, and a big chunk of them are the poorly-designed A3640.
Well there is a solution to that little problem
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Old 19 August 2019, 11:47   #72
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Out of interest, would Zorro slots fit in the ATX form factor? I mean is it wide enough to place the Zorro slots far enough towards the front of the case?

Never mind finding a case that has enough room for full length cards these days...
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Old 20 August 2019, 04:31   #73
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As I said over on Amiga.org, eliminating the on-board CPU and FASTRAM is probably worth considering (so it requires an accelerator and possibly a HD controller to be functional)
On an A2000 this would be pretty simple. No fastram on the mobo and a 68k coprocessor board is about as easy as it gets. With the A3000 a good basic board would be key, and would need to be part of the kit so to speak. I do like the idea though. Simplify a bit. (I do realize that doesn’t mean simpler to design.)

Forgot to add it to the list, but standard ATX power would be ace.
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Old 20 August 2019, 08:40   #74
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Why Standard ATX. the connector is easy to get anyway.. and ATX psu takes space..

however I could fix the -5V issue onboard selectable.. sure.
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Old 20 August 2019, 11:27   #75
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Why Standard ATX. the connector is easy to get anyway.. and ATX psu takes space..

however I could fix the -5V issue onboard selectable.. sure.
Mainly because ATX cases are very easy to get, including retro looking ones. Didn't I see someone made a new A2000 style case that could take various boards, including ATX.
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Old 20 August 2019, 11:41   #76
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Ahh was thinking of a ATX style powerconnector..

doing it to a ATX formfactor design. well. that would for sure be. "later"
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Old 20 August 2019, 18:44   #77
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The other advantage being that you don't also need a backplane, it can be like the A2000 with the slots on the main board.

I wonder if the backplane was just because they needed space on the motherboard, or if vertical cards went out of fashion for some reason.
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Old 20 August 2019, 19:30   #78
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Ahh was thinking of a ATX style powerconnector..

doing it to a ATX formfactor design. well. that would for sure be. "later"
I was thinking of the ATX powerconnector But that’s because my head is in A2000 land and used A2000 powersupplies are more expensive than new ATX ones, AND you probably have to recap them as well for even more cost. And the conversion cable thing never sat well with me. So straight up ATX would be great.

ATX formfactor Amiga, I think at this point it would be an actual new Amiga. At some point you just have to wonder if a vampire would just be easier
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Old 22 August 2019, 13:10   #79
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Out of interest, would Zorro slots fit in the ATX form factor? I mean is it wide enough to place the Zorro slots far enough towards the front of the case?

Never mind finding a case that has enough room for full length cards these days...
Zorro II was designed around a modified AT form factor (because the A2000 was designed to accept full-length AT cards in its ISA slots, which conveniently gave room to put the Z2 slots inline with the ISA slots). ATX was designed to support most, but not all AT cards -- the max length ones will not fit a strict ATX case, which means that Z2 slots and cards will also not fit. I believe ATX was designed to barely, and I mean *BARELY* fit VESA Local Bus slots, which are much shorter than Zorro.

EATX cases on the other hand support the same card lengths as AT, and it's very easy to find EATX cases (to fit larger server-oriented motherboards). Also, many larger ATX cases are deep enough to fit AT-sized cards, with the caveat that the space is taken up by internal drive bays in the front that have to be removed.

An EATX form factor motherboard that supported ECS/AGA chipsets with inline Z3 would of course be great. If you only need Z2 then with a drill and dremel it's actually pretty easy to hack an A2000 motherboard into an EATX case. (My A4000 is in one of those Elbox hacked AT cases where they added a horizontal busboard and lifted the rear card bays to line up with the higher busboard.)

EDIT: In fact if you look at the A4000TX project you'll see that the top of the board fits in ATX spec, but the bottom where the Z3 slots are stretches into EATX space.

https://www.retrosummit.com/wp-conte...8/A4000ATX.jpg

Last edited by AmigaHope; 22 August 2019 at 16:31.
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Old 22 August 2019, 14:18   #80
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TSOP/SSOP all the logic! SMD the resistors/caps - but make them the large ones that people that aren't so good at SMD would find a little easier - still saves space
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