English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 27 February 2019, 07:02   #1
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Video Toaster 4000 (Amiga A2000) just quit on me

Hey guys,

today I acquired a friends Video Toaster 4000. Its an A2000 Amiga.
At first it booted right up and I played with it for a couple hours then all the sudden in locked up with he Zzz mouse cursor and I powered down and back up and now it just cycles through different grays on the screen.

I opened it up and it has two hard drives and a syquest drive. The main HD is ion a daughter card TrumpCard.

They seem to come up ok and make various read sounds but the HD light never blinks.

Theres a daughter card installed with a 68030 on it and ram sim cards.

On power up the Caps Lock key blinks once and then i can tap it several times on and off and then it finally quits lighting up.

The power indicator lights up like normal.

I removed each card one at a time and there was no difference in behavior. Screen cycles from blank to gray to lighter, then lighter again, then pause and it does thee cycle all over again.

I've attached some pics and here is a link to a video showing what it is doing now:

[ Show youtube player ]

Any tips would be appreciated! Thanks!

-Tavis
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 20.16.00.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	983.6 KB
ID:	62234   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 20.15.58.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	991.5 KB
ID:	62235   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 18.42.37.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	1,002.4 KB
ID:	62237   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 18.42.32.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	1.01 MB
ID:	62238   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 18.04.52.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	1.03 MB
ID:	62239  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 18.04.47.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	978.8 KB
ID:	62240   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 13.42.23.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	1,001.4 KB
ID:	62241  

Last edited by Tavis; 27 February 2019 at 13:42.
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 07:38   #2
amiman99
Registered User

amiman99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Age: 46
Posts: 849
First, What you got in an Amiga 2000. Looks like it's still working, just barely.
Check the battery to see if it leaked.
Press down all socket chips.
Remove all cards from the system and check again. You can try with the CPU card first, and then remove it and see if it works.

I need to check if there is a jumper you need to change to use the on board 68000 CPU.
amiman99 is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 08:29   #3
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Your right it’s a 2000. I already pulled all cards. Minimal corrosion on battery and it has voltage still. Only 1.6v though. I pressed down all sockets. There’s a weird chip on the logic board cpu with a black clip on a pin of another chip. Some kind of upgrade. What is the daughter card with another cpu and ram on it? I removed that and it made no difference.
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 10:46   #4
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
OK I did some more investigating and when I pulled the 68000 off the logic board there was corrosion on some of the bottom left pins.
I cleaned it up with vinegar and rubbing alcohol then re-seated it and pulled the daughter card off that has the other cpu and ram on it and the screen does not cycle through the various shades of gray. It just stays either solid black or if i cycle power, sometimes it's solid gray.

When I plug the daughter board back in I get the usual cycling of grays to white and back again.

The caps lock light stops lighting after 6 toggles (I read somewhere that might bean the CPU is not responding).

I put a logic probe to various pins of the 68000 and I am getting pulses off thee clock, address, and data lines. When I pull the 68000 out all of these pins are held low so the 68000 seems to be working, right?

I'm not sure if this daughter board with ram on it is standard or if its some accelerator board that bypasses the on board cpu.

Any ideas? Should I try replacing the cpu and socket? The fact that I am seeing pulses off the cpu makes me thing it is ok though...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 23.19.03.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	1,014.2 KB
ID:	62244   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 23.18.31.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	1.10 MB
ID:	62245   Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-02-26 22.42.16.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	1.05 MB
ID:	62246  

Last edited by Tavis; 27 February 2019 at 11:17.
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 13:16   #5
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
I've ordered a new 68000 and socket. The socket is bad for sure. Should the screen display something when powering up the logic board by itself with no cards or hard disks or floppies connected to it? Just power and the monitor plugged in?
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 13:32   #6
AmigaHope
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Sandusky
Posts: 319
REMOVE THE BATTERY NOW, clean the board entirely in the area, and check for more corrosive damage. The battery will continue to leak and destroy your motherboard until you get rid of it. You can then solder in a new battery of the same type (which eventually will leak again someday) or replace it with a cleaner system like a coin cell battery socket. You can also just run without the battery for a while since all it's used for is to power the clock while the system is off (just set date time on each cold powercycle boot or run a script that pulls time from the internet).

Check all the traces near where the battery was as some may have corroded through and you may have to fix that with bodge wires. You're spot on about the 68000 socket needing replacement -- battery damage to the socket and area of the motherboard is one of the single most common things that kills A2000 motherboards. Your 68000 itself might still be good with cleaning.
AmigaHope is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 13:36   #7
dalek
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NSW/Australia
Posts: 298
That ic clip goes to a megachip 2mb Agnus upgrade. I would gently lift it out of the socket, clean the contacts and reinstall it. Those megachips have a tendancy to come loose and the Agnus socket is known for the contacts becoming oxidised.

But first attend to the CPU area as mentioned above.
dalek is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 13:39   #8
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
I ordered a button cell battery kit. Yes I think the 68000 is probably good but I ordered a new one just incase. I do see clock signals off the data, clock and address lines. But the first few pins (the address lines) are definately having contact issue. I have to push down hard on the pins to get a pulse off the logic probe. the pins on the socket are corroded bad and breaking off.

So I have removed the board completely so I could look at the bottom side and it looks clean. Now after I replace the socket, cpu, and battery, can I just connect power to the bare board and hook to a monitor and expect to see something on the display if all is working properly? Or do I need to connect up some of the daughter cards / disk/io etc?
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 13:43   #9
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
That ic clip goes to a megachip 2mb Agnus upgrade. I would gently lift it out of the socket, clean the contacts and reinstall it. Those megachips have a tendancy to come loose and the Agnus socket is known for the contacts becoming oxidised.

But first attend to the CPU area as mentioned above.
I looked that up and found out what it is. I also removed it and checked it out. It is clean.
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 15:30   #10
amiman99
Registered User

amiman99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Age: 46
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavis View Post
Now after I replace the socket, cpu, and battery, can I just connect power to the bare board and hook to a monitor and expect to see something on the display if all is working properly? Or do I need to connect up some of the daughter cards / disk/io etc?
Yes, you just need power and it will work.
amiman99 is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 19:04   #11
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Ok, and the on board cpu is still required to be working even if the accelerator card is installed? I found out that it is a G-Force 030 from Great Valley.
Tavis is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 20:02   #12
amiman99
Registered User

amiman99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Age: 46
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavis View Post
Ok, and the on board cpu is still required to be working even if the accelerator card is installed? I found out that it is a G-Force 030 from Great Valley.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that if you have CPU card in A2000, you don't need the 68000. I think it's disabled.
I believe in that, because I have A3000 with a dead 68030 and it works fine with a 68030 CPU card. Now, the A3000 has a jumper that you need to use to basically give control to the CPU card.
A2000 does not have that jumper, so I'm not 100% sure.
My A2000 has 68030 CPU card in it, so I could open my A2000 and remove the 68000 and see if it still works.
I'll do that as a last resort if no one can confirm that. To many things to remove and it takes time.



Maybe what you could do is to put pressure on your 68000 and boot the motherboard with no cards attached. By putting pressure on the CPU you could make better contact.


When you see the gray screen or different gray/white screens cycling, it's a good omen that nothing major had failed. These colors are the last stage of boot process.
amiman99 is offline  
Old 27 February 2019, 20:09   #13
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by amiman99 View Post
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that if you have CPU card in A2000, you don't need the 68000. I think it's disabled.
I believe in that, because I have A3000 with a dead 68030 and it works fine with a 68030 CPU card. Now, the A3000 has a jumper that you need to use to basically give control to the CPU card.
A2000 does not have that jumper, so I'm not 100% sure.
My A2000 has 68030 CPU card in it, so I could open my A2000 and remove the 68000 and see if it still works.
I'll do that as a last resort if no one can confirm that. To many things to remove and it takes time.



Maybe what you could do is to put pressure on your 68000 and boot the motherboard with no cards attached. By putting pressure on the CPU you could make better contact.


When you see the gray screen or different gray/white screens cycling, it's a good omen that nothing major had failed. These colors are the last stage of boot process.
Yeah I tried putting pressure on it. My socket is shot now. Several pins on the bottom right of the cpu are not making contact.
Tavis is offline  
Old 04 March 2019, 19:16   #14
AmigaHope
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Sandusky
Posts: 319
You unsoldered the battery right? My main point was that it needed to be removed ASAP, regardless of whether or not you had anything to replace it with at the moment. It's not needed for testing and repair, just convenience.

You're lucky you got a DKB Megachip. That's a very rare piece of hardware and an excellent upgrade! They go for like $200.

Anyway for now unsolder and throw away your battery, and immediately unsolder and throw away your bad 68000 socket and immediately clean up the corrosive crap that's doubtless hiding under it. Don't bother installing the button battery just yet, get the rest of your system working so you know it's all good, and do the battery last.

As mentioned before, grey screens are a good sign. If all is working they should end with floppy disk screen or with attempt to boot. Colored screens indicate other hardware issues, for instance if you get a green screen it's usually a problem with your Agnus/Megachip or the onboard CHIP RAM (99% of the time green screen is just due to improper seating of Agnus in socket).

Also be aware that I'm assuming you're using the RGB port (since I see you have a 1084 monitor in the pictures). If you're trying to use the RCA video jack on the back, be aware that it is just a luma signal *NOT* composite, so you will not get color on it (i.e. all your screens will be grey!)
AmigaHope is offline  
Old 05 March 2019, 00:49   #15
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigaHope View Post
You unsoldered the battery right? My main point was that it needed to be removed ASAP, regardless of whether or not you had anything to replace it with at the moment. It's not needed for testing and repair, just convenience.

You're lucky you got a DKB Megachip. That's a very rare piece of hardware and an excellent upgrade! They go for like $200.

Anyway for now unsolder and throw away your battery, and immediately unsolder and throw away your bad 68000 socket and immediately clean up the corrosive crap that's doubtless hiding under it. Don't bother installing the button battery just yet, get the rest of your system working so you know it's all good, and do the battery last.

As mentioned before, grey screens are a good sign. If all is working they should end with floppy disk screen or with attempt to boot. Colored screens indicate other hardware issues, for instance if you get a green screen it's usually a problem with your Agnus/Megachip or the onboard CHIP RAM (99% of the time green screen is just due to improper seating of Agnus in socket).

Also be aware that I'm assuming you're using the RGB port (since I see you have a 1084 monitor in the pictures). If you're trying to use the RCA video jack on the back, be aware that it is just a luma signal *NOT* composite, so you will not get color on it (i.e. all your screens will be grey!)

I removed the battery and replaced the 68000 socket. But now i get a blank screen on power up. it flickers white for a millisecond on power up and that's it.

I do see some pulses of some of the pins on the 68000 but looks like nothing is coming off the address lines. I guess the next step is to check continuity on all of the 68000 pins and then wait for the replacement to get here. I do have an A1000 here that I could swap the cpu out with I suppose.

Not sure what I get from the fact the I am seeing some pulses from the logic probe on some of the pins...
Tavis is offline  
Old 05 March 2019, 01:06   #16
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
I went over the 68000 pins with the logic probe again and pin 29-43 are pulsing which are the address lines... Not all address pins are pulsing but those are. the RST pin is low on power up and then after about one second it goes high. Not showing a pulse of the CLK pin, its low, but I am assuming that is because the clock is too fast since I AM seeing pulses from the address lines.

None of the chips are getting hot either.

I do have one of those cheapo LCD oscilloscopes I could hook up but I am not sure if it can handle the clock speed.
Tavis is offline  
Old 05 March 2019, 04:44   #17
amiman99
Registered User

amiman99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Age: 46
Posts: 849
How about using freq counter to check the clocks?
amiman99 is offline  
Old 05 March 2019, 05:54   #18
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by amiman99 View Post
How about using freq counter to check the clocks?
Don’t have one but since the address lines are pulsing doesn’t that mean the clocks ok?
Tavis is offline  
Old 05 March 2019, 06:12   #19
amiman99
Registered User

amiman99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Age: 46
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavis View Post
Don’t have one but since the address lines are pulsing doesn’t that mean the clocks ok?
I'm not an expert on troubleshooting CPU issues, so I'm not sure.


I had an issue with a accelerator for my A600 that quit working, after messing with connections, putting pressure on CPU and other things, I just had to check if the oscillator was working.
Got my cheap freq counter, and found out the oscillator was dead, I replaced it and it works now.


Your system was working, so it looks like something minor is happening, try to put back the 030 CPU card and troubleshoot with it.


Do yo have a extra CIA chip, according to this guide it could be bad.
https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=324

Edit: I'm thinking, postpone the full troubleshooting till you fix the CPU socket.

Last edited by amiman99; 05 March 2019 at 07:09.
amiman99 is offline  
Old 05 March 2019, 07:28   #20
Tavis
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego / USA
Age: 50
Posts: 42
I fixed the cpu socket. And remove the battery.
I’ve confirmed that the cpu is also good by swapping it with one in an Amiga 1000.


When I put the 030 board back in I get the same results now. Blank screen. No more white to gray cycling

So far I haven’t found any broken traces either.

It’s getting tougher to find the issue.
Tavis is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installation of Video Toaster A2000 Irl support.Apps 4 04 April 2017 04:03
Video Toaster 4000 for Amiga 2000 questions antiriad76 support.Hardware 3 18 September 2016 18:47
Is Indivision AGA MkIIcr compatible with Video Toaster 4000 in a 4000? pgovotsos support.Hardware 0 07 January 2016 06:26
FA: Amiga 4000 Computer with Video Toaster +MORE vamigan MarketPlace 3 27 June 2007 21:28
Video Toaster 4000, Get it before it goes on ebay. Pyromania MarketPlace 0 29 January 2002 01:56

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09360 seconds with 16 queries