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Old 17 August 2017, 17:52   #41
Akira
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Originally Posted by McTrinsic View Post
How do you best upgrade workbench.library without touching the ROM?
I did exactly what PeterK described, using RemLib from his icon.library package! Works great.
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Old 17 August 2017, 18:43   #42
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Originally Posted by daxb View Post
Are you sure about this? I tried LibSnooper and SnoopLibs to catch CopyMem() calls and there wasn`t a single one with IBrowse and SongPlayer running. Only if SongPlayer is playing a file infinity CopyMem() calls are printing.
I could not duplicate either. It has been years and I could be remembering wrong. MUI does some automatic registering with commodity.library (MUI apps automatically are commodities and have ARexx ports) which does constantly use CopyMem() and never sleeps but it doesn't seem any worse with MUI apps running.

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A lot of (most?) GUI elements of MUI is configurable. So if you don`t like you can make it look similar like intuition. The problem with MUI is that you need it if you want to use one of the many MUI programs. Its a quasi must-have even if you dislike/hate it.
The problem with MUI is that many things are expected or automatic rather than purely optional which uses more resources and enforces a certain style. That style differs from the Amiga User Interface Style Guide standards. Some MUI features are useful and save time for developers and should be considered for the standard AmigaOS GUI. MUI's importance due to the number of apps using it is not in doubt but the reliance on a 3rd party GUI for what should be a standard and consistent AmigaOS GUI is not good, IMO. I do worry about the resources needed if Workbench/workbench.library used MUI. Wanderer in AROS using Zune (AROS MUI) is huge (several times the AmigaOS 3.9 Workbench size).

Last edited by matthey; 17 August 2017 at 19:12.
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Old 17 August 2017, 23:57   #43
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Sorry for joining the off-topic 'MUI' here. Actually I am a bit disappointed at the number of apps actually using it. Were it not for Poseidon I am not sure I would need it. E.g. I would love a decent file manager. Unfortunately, RO has issues with large drives.
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Old 18 August 2017, 01:16   #44
matthey
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Sorry for joining the off-topic 'MUI' here. Actually I am a bit disappointed at the number of apps actually using it. Were it not for Poseidon I am not sure I would need it. E.g. I would love a decent file manager. Unfortunately, RO has issues with large drives.
The Amiga has enough file managers. Opus Magellan is open source and sometimes replaces Wanderer blurring the lines between Workbench and a file manager (not using MUI with MorphOS Ambient being the only file manager/workbench replacement which I know of). It still does use more memory than the AmigaOS Workbench and file managers like DiskMaster or DirWork. We can see some Amiga users preferring to use the more sparse AmigaOS 3.1 workbench as with BetterWB (68000 executables are larger than 68020 executables taking more memory but less features is still smaller). Customizability and modularity are good but sometimes it would be nice to have some standardization too.
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Old 18 August 2017, 02:16   #45
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Ok, everybody here has his favourite file manager, but I still prefer DOpus 4.17pre21. It needs a lot of work to configure it optimal for your personal demands, and I did that already 25 years ago, but I think it's one of the best tools even under OS 3.9. If you need the german localization I could upload it to the Zone.

http://dopus.free.fr/

Last edited by PeterK; 18 August 2017 at 02:25.
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Old 18 August 2017, 04:23   #46
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Originally Posted by McTrinsic View Post
Sorry for joining the off-topic 'MUI' here. Actually I am a bit disappointed at the number of apps actually using it. Were it not for Poseidon I am not sure I would need it. E.g. I would love a decent file manager. Unfortunately, RO has issues with large drives.
Here is your fix:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=676315&postcount=10
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Old 18 August 2017, 14:05   #47
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My point was not generally about (excellent) other file managers but specifically about a MUI-FileManager.
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Old 18 August 2017, 17:34   #48
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Sorry to go off-topic again, but I just had too

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Originally Posted by matthey View Post
I recently bought a new "PC" going from a Core2Duo with 32 bit XP to a i5 with 64 bit 7 (my brother and friends wanted me to play a game with them where XP was "obsolete"). The CPU is supposed to be twice as fast per core and there are twice as many cores but 7 is so much slower
Odd. I recently went from XP to Win10 on my low end Amd 3400 APU (bought without OS). Added some RAM, and Win10 performance is very similar to XP on this machine. Glad I skipped Win7.


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I had a XP laptop with Pentium M fan failure which dropped it back to 800MHz which is so many times faster CPU than my AmigaOS 3.9 68060@75MHz but it was unbearably slow as I could watch the screen update and I had to hold the mouse button down over buttons to get them to register.
Really? I used XP on a 667Mhz Pentium 3 for years. Worked fine. Only 'heavy' pages in web browsers were slow.
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Old 18 August 2017, 17:34   #49
Akira
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How about making a "MUI FILE MANAGER" thread or whatever, instead of writing here?
And how abut making a "Let's talk about how shitty Windows Whatever is" thread?

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Old 18 August 2017, 18:43   #50
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Yeah, let's talk about Vampire and CPU code density instead.
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Old 18 August 2017, 19:21   #51
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It's a shame there isn't a central Database of the various library versions stating what's been changed, what depends on another version of a different library etc.
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Old 18 August 2017, 19:42   #52
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It's a shame there isn't a central Database of the various library versions stating what's been changed, what depends on another version of a different library etc.
Yes that is a shame.
Perhaps Foul can slowly add it to his archives at https://amiga.foul.fr/
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Old 18 August 2017, 20:00   #53
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Perhaps Foul can slowly add it to his archives at https://amiga.foul.fr/
I was thinking the same.
Would be handy for building your own WB setup. At the moment you have got what the guy(s) who built ClassicWB have decided to put in there pack, same for BetterWB and AmiKit etc. But there's no real info on why any of it is in there.
The other option is to start from scratch and put what you want in but I find it hard to know what to put in and what versions will it run with X CPU and what are the benefits to each library or device version etc.
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Old 18 August 2017, 21:02   #54
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At the moment you have got what the guy(s) who built ClassicWB have decided to put in there pack, same for BetterWB and AmiKit etc. But there's no real info on why any of it is in there.
Exactly why I posted this thread before it derailed.
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Old 18 August 2017, 21:44   #55
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It is part of OS development. So... On the other hand it is simple. If you want to upgrade OS3.1 with more then a handful libs/datatypes/... then install OS3.9.
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Old 18 August 2017, 22:32   #56
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I've read numerous times in this thread references to installing 3.9 and then 'pruning it down' to remove bloat, or regain the performance boost, etc. Are there any good articles or topics anywhere on this?

I don't really have a problem on my main system since it's a 68060 with 128MB of ram, and will soon get a Picasso, but I'm very interested in learning about this for my A1200 and, at the end of the day, for general interest.

Thanks.

[EDIT] Not that it really matters but I have an original 3.9 CD.
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Old 19 August 2017, 02:48   #57
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Replace the icons and throw out stuff from WBStartup. You don't need AmiDock or BenchTrash.
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Old 19 August 2017, 13:52   #58
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OK, well if that's all that people are concerned about with 3.9 then I'm good because I like the icons and with PeterK's library plus an 060 and Oktagon IDE they draw fast enough. I've also already dumped AmiDock and BenchTrash.
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