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Old 20 July 2017, 03:28   #161
Shatterhand
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Originally Posted by Akira View Post
I don't think they are possible.
Have you played Mega Typhoon? The amount of stuff flying on screen goes somewhere near the Late toaplan/Early Cave shooters.
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Old 20 July 2017, 08:15   #162
Akira
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Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
but they are possible on Falcon
You're starting to sound like Miggy4eva :/
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Have you played Mega Typhoon? The amount of stuff flying on screen goes somewhere near the Late toaplan/Early Cave shooters.
Mega Typhoon is more like Raiden, I don't consider Raiden to be a manic!
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Old 20 July 2017, 08:47   #163
Zarchos
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Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
Is there a reason the scrolling layers in the Power demo on the Arch don't overlap?
Yes of course it is easier this way.

Another example of parallax scrollings on the Archie at 50 fps, is a Tetris game, except this time it is not in 16 colours, but in 256 colours.

It is in fact much less impressive than the PowerDemo, I agree, but again neither you or I know how many cycles left there are per frame.

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 20 July 2017, 09:14   #164
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Its not fallacious in the slightest. I really don't think you have any appreciation for what it would take to realise something like Beast on the base model Archimedes. Sure, its got a fast processor, but that won't be enough on its own
No, of course not : I certainly have spent some time on my fast plotting routines playing the flute and banjo at the same time
The Raster Manager will offer many new opportunities, I don't think you understand that.
I never said Beast would be doable 1:1 with the Amga btw : this is you trying to drive me into that direction.
Read the comments I left about the PowerDemo : they are only about the reproduction of some effects, that Amiga fanboys, Archie bashers, said the Archie could never do even in a demo. I repeat : some effects, even in a demo. I repeat again : some effects, even in a demo.
Am I understood or shall I repeat again ?

So yes the PowerDemo does what they said would be impossible : it reproduces some effects, in a demo. Period.
Bashing the Archie was unnecessary.

Now let's keep on exchanging ideas about whether or not SOTB would be doable on the Archie, you've spent so much time trying to bash the Archie and prove it would be impossible, that I am again going to trounce you ... yet again, I should have said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
As well as the parallax layers in the sky, it uses hardware sprites for the moon and the blimps that move across, it also reloads the sprites for the heart rate monitor and the potions. These are elements that don't need to be redrawn every frame, and sprite priorities are switched so that the blimps and moon are below the clouds.

All of the sky elements on the Archimedes would have to be redrawn every frame.
Why are you insisting on that ?
It makes no sense at at all.
Hardware scrolling will make the clouds scroll, for the rest there isn't much, and the sprite cursor on the Archie can also be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Then there is the 13 levels of parallax at the bottom that are simply hardware scrolled, the Archimedes would have to redraw all 13 at their varying speeds every frame.
You are talking of the ground, right ?
Again : you are completely ignorant that it will be scrolled by hardware by Raster Man.
Your critics show you haven't even listened to the video of the cMEMC demo for which I gave the link.
It shows you are into bashing the Archie, not into a scientifical approach to study and weight pros and cons to draw a fair conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Some of those trees moving across the screen? Reloaded hardware sprites, no redrawing necessary for the Amiga, on the Archimedes, you're going to have to redraw all that as well, some of those trees are not sprites and are part of the dual playfield, meaning objects plotted over the trees don't have to preserve the parts of the trees they cover because its dual playfield.
This is where my very fast sprites plotting routines will make the difference.
And a few tricks I can read you have no clue whatsoever.
You have no idea of the performance of my routines btw.
Could you agree as I am the author I might know they are capable of ?
They are extremely fast, for 256 colour modes.
Imagine I decide now to modify them to run in 16 colour modes ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Archimedes doesn't get that advantage.
Your say based on biased sentiments and sophisms doesn't make it the truth.
Of course the Amiga has an advantage, but it is not a scientifical proof the Archie couldn't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The Beast character, obviously no hassles there. However, some of the enemies that you come up against in Beast on the outside level are pretty big, with the metal spikes easily going higher than the mountain background,
the hands are pretty big objects, sometimes two onscreen, then theres the yellow tree/spike things that are quite big, as well as at times the ball/eye enemies that bounce around the Beast character.
The beast ennemies are most of the time the same on screen, or they share the same base graphics + some small different parts (see the eyes for example).
This is where my 1 load N store routines will prove their efficiency.
Routines I haven't demonstrated yet. Any sprite being a Nth copy on screen will take only about 50 to max 60% of the CPU cycles necessary to plot the 1st one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The Archimedes is going to have to redraw EVERYTHING on screen, and, play music and sound fx, and not drop a frame, no 25frames a second here
You can shout lies as loud as you want, frantically, it won't turn them into truth.
The truth is that you have no idea what the Raster Manager brings to the Archimedes, and I have already demonstrated you are wrong : no the Archimedes won't have to redraw everything on screen.
Playing the tunes and the SFX takes between 8 and 12% on an 8 Mhz machine. No big deal really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The Amiga could do all of this because Reflections designed it around the Amigas strengths.
No really ? Not around its weaknesses ?
Thanks for sharing these valuable infos, I was not aware of this, really
Classical boasting of the Amiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Theres a reason why the game is in dual playfield.

But that means only 16 colours right? Wrong. Try at least 128 colours with
extensive colour reloading by the copper
As a coder on the Archie, I really don't care about all this blurb, the architectures are so different, I would not use the same techniques, for sure, it is obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Beast was exploited by many demo groups back in the day, eager to prove that Reflections didn't have the monopoly on technical prowess, I find it odd that in light of Beats reputation that no-one ever tried to replicate it in full on the Archimedes, clearly the Power Demo was inspired by it, you have to ask the question why they didn't go further with it.
Why would you want some brilliant students in Science go further when they already had little time to spend on coding demos ?
This question doesn't add anything serious to the debate.
It is based on nothing scientific and only serves your purpose and emotional state : bashing the Archie.
Can't you just stay on topic ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
With respect, thats irrelevant now. Advances like this needed to be discovered when the Archimedes was current, 30 years later is 30 years too late.




Would have helped if the Archimedes wasn't hampered by Acorn in the first place who priced it too high, and just expected that all schools would replace their ageing BBC Model B's and Masters with Archimedes instead.

The likes of RM with their shitty Nimbus machines undercut them, and they were not even a quarter of the power of an Archimedes.
Your personal considerations are yours only, and off topic.
Please stay on topic, your emotional considerations, because you once owned an Acorn machine brought home by Daddy, and you despised it, interest yourself only, and / or possibly your shrink.

For most of us and for sure as far as I am concerned, I do not find it interesting or constructive.

If you want to start a topic about Acorn, do it.
I don't think that will really be interesting, but if it is for you a good therapy for the Daddy thing, do not hesitate : do it.
Expect to find me there too, to trounce you once again. It is so easy : you know so little, there is no intellectual sport unfortunately.

Eventually I'd like to add that if it is unclear whether or not an Archimedes, 1st generation at 8 Mhz, could produce a game extremely close to the Amiga SOTB, it is absolutely certain, without even the slightest doubt, that the generation running at 12 Mhz can do it and have even more sprites on screen.
The only limitation will be the number of colours : there will be more for the sprites, and less for the sky ...
Because, ahem, sorry for the Amiga worshippers : but except for the rasterised colours in the sky, each element displayed on screen has only a few colours : this is a limitation the Archie wouldn't have, mainly because all his screen modes are chunky.

Last edited by Zarchos; 20 July 2017 at 10:25. Reason: Trying to speak proper English, not Frenglish
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Old 20 July 2017, 10:53   #165
Galahad/FLT
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All that wall of text, and in amongst it all, the truth finally comes out, bravo

"I never said Beast would be doable 1:1 with the Amiga btw "

So if you didn't say it, then you're clearly not confident it can do it, thats the only conclusion to be drawn from that.

All of your procrastination's on Youtube about the Amiga and its 'weak copros' seem........ well, weak with an admission like that.



I also love how you selectively quote me to say the following:

you've spent so much time trying to bash the Archie

and

because you once owned an Acorn machine and you despised it


However, your claims are at odds with reality where I said the following which you decided to omit:

The Archimedes is a decent machine, better than the Amiga at some things

and

When it comes to vector based processing, well, theres no comparison, Lander looks and plays MUCH better than the Amiga version (Virus) does.


And then you don't understand why i'm pointing out why hardware sprites are used for the blimps and the moon in the clouds.

It's to demonstrate that the Amiga doesn't have to redraw ANY of this stuff because its all done in hardware, the Archimedes has to redraw ALL of it.


Anyway, you haven't explained how this 'raster manager' will work properly for a game like Beast on a base level Archimedes. You seem to think that simply saying "but the Archimedes has a raster manager" somehow magically explains it all.

The problem for you is you really don't understand how the Amiga hardware works which is why you are badly placed to comment on what it would take to transition it 1:1 onto the Archimedes.

I always found it strange that Beast was never converted to the Archimedes, bearing in mind it was converted to every single other system, some more obscure than the Archimedes.

The rest of what you have to say is pretty much irrelevant now that you've conceeded that a base Archimedes isn't likely to be able to do Beast 1:1 and have gamely tried to say "but the 12mhz could!", thats called moving the goalposts

I think you need to take things less personally, but accept that some of the things you've said on Youtube can and will follow you. Very few of us think the Archimedes is crap, it's done some good conversions of some Amiga hits, but theres a reason why not every game got a conversion to the Archimedes, because someone evaluated somewhere that they didn't think the Archimedes could pull it off.

C'est la vie
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Old 20 July 2017, 11:22   #166
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We even got Beast on the ZX Spectrum. It was pretty good fun actually, though the graphics were a little scaled-back from the Amiga. Though I suppose if the Archie couldn't do it back then, that's why it was never ported. As you say, pretty much every damn platform out there got a port... except the Arch.
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Old 20 July 2017, 13:50   #167
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We even got Beast on the ZX Spectrum. It was pretty good fun actually, though the graphics were a little scaled-back from the Amiga. Though I suppose if the Archie couldn't do it back then, that's why it was never ported. As you say, pretty much every damn platform out there got a port... except the Arch.
The ZX Spectrum. More powerful than the Archimedes
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Old 20 July 2017, 15:13   #168
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a bitter soul complaining why his favourite homecomputer of the 80s era didn't get the attention it might should have been back then ....
the rest is less interesting and only fairly related to assembler on Amiga...

.... this posting is surely not relevant to Coding, too
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Old 20 July 2017, 17:39   #169
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Lots of threads derailing into passionate fanboy arguments lately...
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Old 20 July 2017, 17:50   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
...
The rest of what you have to say is pretty much irrelevant now that you've conceeded that a base Archimedes isn't likely to be able to do Beast 1:1 and have gamely tried to say "but the 12mhz could!", thats called moving the goalposts
...
Just for those who don't know this: the 12Mhz based Archimedes models where launched late 1992, a full 5 years after the Amiga 500, 7 years after the Amiga 1000 and just about alongside the Amiga 1200.

This is doesn't mean that I think the Acorns where crap or anything (I think they are nice machines with interesting hardware), but I felt it might make clearer why comparing the 12Mhz Acorn machines with the Amiga 500 isn't really that fair a comparison.
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Old 20 July 2017, 18:03   #171
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Its certainly not going to reduce the overhead of having to redraw EVERYTHING on screen


I find it cute that he is arguing with you about coding


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Old 20 July 2017, 18:08   #172
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Just for those who don't know this: the 12Mhz based Archimedes models where launched late 1992, a full 5 years after the Amiga 500, 7 years after the Amiga 1000 and just about alongside the Amiga 1200.
And yet it can not run Doom... It looks like that Falcon is only non-PC computer from 1992. that can run Doom. <fanboism at the best>
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Old 20 July 2017, 18:48   #173
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This is getting stupid. Thread closed.
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