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Old 29 December 2020, 15:35   #1
Yoji
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AmigaOS 4.1 FE update 2

I have an old install of the 4.1FE update 1, prob 3 years old.. I dont use it much (at all? dont have any software) but just keep it up to date via auto updates with AmiUpdate.
Its been working fine.. but now that update 2 is out.. I wanted update.. so downloaded.. and had problems unpacking via Unarc (it just hung .. with task showing not responding in PC task manager).. so killed task and restarted.. and did it via command line using Lha in Shell.. but that got stuck and locked up again.
So i wondered if I needed update before trying apply update 2.. so went to Amiupdate and there are couple of update avail.. most notable is "an update to the MUI5 3rd party contribution classes .... " which seems to install (and prompt for a soft reboot to apply).. but after reboot.. it still says the update needs to be applied.
So... anyone else having problems? or should I just give up and wipe the whole thing and start from scratch with fresh install?
AMiga forever itself is up to date.. 8.3.7.0 with latest WinUAE underneath.

Thanks in advance for any advice... shout if you have questions.
Cheers
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Old 29 December 2020, 15:59   #2
duga
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Download it to your Amiga.

lha x update.lha ram:

Check RAM and run the installer.
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Old 29 December 2020, 16:43   #3
Yoji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duga View Post
Download it to your Amiga.

lha x update.lha ram:

Check RAM and run the installer.
Was it not clear from my description that I had done that... and it hung on the extract? either with the Unarc.. or with LHA from a shell command line
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Old 29 December 2020, 16:48   #4
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Try download it again from Hyperion's website, maybe your file is corrupt.
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Old 01 January 2021, 15:56   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duga View Post
Try download it again from Hyperion's website, maybe your file is corrupt.
Thanks.. I must admit, when you said that.. i thought "WTH?? this is not the 1990s.. we dont have such issues these days" but thought I would humour you.. and it worked!! it extracted and installed just fine

AmiUpdate still says there are 3 updates avail.. but fails to install any of them... but I will just assume that an MiUpdate issue and let someone else report/fix that.. I will just try again in a month or so.

Thanks again for your help
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Old 01 January 2021, 17:45   #6
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A good start of the year.

I myself have a couple of MUI updates I can't get rid of.
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Old 01 January 2021, 22:26   #7
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@duga, MUI updates you want get rid of? From AmiUpdate, just unselect them. From the System HD, just use the RollBack feature.

Hyperion clearly states that Update1 and Update2 shall be installed on a clean System HD, so no extra software or games on your System HD.
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Old 01 January 2021, 23:57   #8
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Originally Posted by ma693541 View Post
@duga, MUI updates you want get rid of? From AmiUpdate, just unselect them. From the System HD, just use the RollBack feature.

Hyperion clearly states that Update1 and Update2 shall be installed on a clean System HD, so no extra software or games on your System HD.
I wont speak for Duga.. but from my perspective.. if something like AmiUpdate says there are updates available for my system.. I expect that its pretty much a recommendation that I should install... to keep my system up to date with the latest versions of its various components
So if it fails to install.... then I take it that there is a problem... either my system is not in an expected state (so if its not.. should not AmiUpdate not detect its not in a state to receive the said updates.. and so not recommend?) or there is a problem when it tries to install (so bad quality update?) and it should give a clear message on the problem so I know what to fix?

If the message from Hyperion is true (TBH.. I didnt read all the blurb before downloading) then its really just a VERY poor cop out from them.. just to cover their arse.... Can you imagine Microsoft saying you can only install an update if you have no other software installed
As it happens.. mine is pretty much in that state (as I said.. I dont have any other software) so I am OK... but from a practical perspective.. its a ridiculous statement.

Cheers
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Old 02 January 2021, 11:50   #9
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Use AmiUpdate to only update System files, download and install Update1. Don't use Ram-Disk for extraction, because you will run out of memory. Do the same for Update2.
Mount Update1 archive as a HD in WinUAE, update, reboot and do the same procedure for Update 2.
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Old 02 January 2021, 22:23   #10
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It is indeed a "cover their arses" sort of statement, but it's worded as a strong recommendation rather than a necessity, and doesn't mean that their shouldn't be any other software installed, just that the OS is a clean install. There are a couple of significant differences from the Windows world that make the comparison invalid. First is the army or support staff that Microsoft have at their disposal to deal with issues, versus the minimal support capacity of the small Hyperion staff. Second, so much software in the Amiga world digs deep into the OS to modify it, and there's nothing to stop that. As a result, many people's OS setups are very customised beyond the basic preferences in the Prefs drawer, and every possible combination of hacks, patches and updates can't possibly be tested or predicted to work. Granted, it's far more of an issue on OS3, but hacks and patches still exist on NG systems, and OS4 also has a funky Shared Objects system that some software messes with, and which could in theory mess up some critical operations such as the installation itself (which IIRC depends on a working python installation). So the statement simply anticipates the first step of any "It doesn't work" type requests by already asking "have you tried it on a fresh install?"

As an aside, even if Microsoft themselves don't specifically recommend a fresh install, you'll find an awful lot of tech websites recommending it anyway, because even though Windows is more locked down than Amiga OS, it's still possible, and relatively common, for software to mess with its internals and potentially affect a future upgrade.
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Old 03 January 2021, 14:12   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma693541 View Post
Use AmiUpdate to only update System files, download and install Update1. Don't use Ram-Disk for extraction, because you will run out of memory. Do the same for Update2.
Mount Update1 archive as a HD in WinUAE, update, reboot and do the same procedure for Update 2.
Thanks.. good tip.. but my install running under Amigia Forever and has 256MB Z3 mem and 128MB under PPc.. and if I recall.. update 2 is 32 MB packed (didnt check how big unpacked) and RAM can expand to use all mem? anyway.. It had enough avail and it was not a prob for me.

I will say.. my suspicions for my hang/unable unpack issues are starting to point toward the "Shared" disk that is pre-built into the AmigaForever PPC build. it seem weird.. it says it is shared between the amigaOS and host system.. but I dont know how I supposed to access it from the host (windows) system... anyone know the directory name? "AmigaSYS4-Work" ? (which would be weird.. as that dir contains files in windows.. but dont show in Amiga)
Anyway ..I used that drive in my first unpacking attempts where I had the problems.. and when I was tidying up after.. I had hangs even in just trying to delete files in that drive. and when I tried format that drive (to delete all files in it) it gave me a "error 33" I ended up delete all files with a force switch.. but it does suggest something dodgy with the drive. I will try and do some more tests.. to confirm/isolate the problem.. but anyone else able confirm/refute ?

Cheers
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Old 04 January 2021, 09:05   #12
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Never, ever use the 750MB pre-built into the AmigaForever PPC build. Why? Because it's a zipped file and to small to hold both System files and the Contribution files and it will be very slow in Start-Up. Make your own PPC HD with the help of WinUAE plugin in AmigaForever for AmigaOS 4.1 FE u2 with a HD in a size of at least 2GB, don't forget to save the configuration-file. BTW, when you have a working OS .HDF, make a copy of it and from now only work with the copy.
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Old 04 January 2021, 09:15   #13
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@Yoji
here you will find how to install the 4.1FE create a 4gigabyte .hdf all with AmigaForever including the update1 the network, the audio and everything else etc.
update 2 will be installed as explained for update1

[ Show youtube player ] <- part one
[ Show youtube player ] <- part two
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Old 05 January 2021, 13:25   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma693541 View Post
Never, ever use the 750MB pre-built into the AmigaForever PPC build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White View Post
@Yoji
here you will find how to install the 4.1FE create a 4gigabyte .hdf
Thanks guys.. but you answering a question I have not asked. 750MB is perfectly fine for my needs (as I said.. I dont have any software to run on the install.. its just a basic system I can play around with). And I have now upgraded to update 2 just fine

My question remains on why I was having corruption/hang issues when using the system.. which I THINK is related to the use of the build in "Shared" drive. I still need do more tests... but that drive is supposed to be shared with the host system.. and checking is 188GB, which seems to be the free space avail of the drive AmigaForever is installed on.. and a few checks suggests that this drive is the D:\Program Files (x86)\Cloanto\Amiga Files\Shared\Workbench directory.. (and that drive is in good health).. so no idea why it may be problmatic... I need to try reproduce the issues i saw.

Cheers
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Old 05 January 2021, 16:54   #15
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Hm. 188GB free on D:\ drive? That must be your secondary partition. What Windows version do you use or do you use AmigaForever thru WINE on Linux?
Here you see my "Shared" folder path, not drive, when I installed AmigaForever without changing anything in the Installer; C:\Users\Public\Documents\Amiga Files\Shared\ and in that path I have some underlying folders; adf, cd, dir, hdf, rom and an empty Workbench folder.
Always use a copy of a-750MB.hdf in the hdf folder to work with for your PPC setup.
Do not have the "Shared" folder where you have installed AmigaForever.
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Old 05 January 2021, 23:15   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma693541 View Post
Hm. 188GB free on D:\ drive? That must be your secondary partition. What Windows version do you use or do you use AmigaForever thru WINE on Linux?
Always use a copy of a-750MB.hdf in the hdf folder to work with for your PPC setup.
Do not have the "Shared" folder where you have installed AmigaForever.
Thanks again for your reply...
My host system is windows 10 Pro.. and my C drive is a 256GB SSD and is JUST for Windows system as much as possible (I know some progs insist on installing components into C Drive)
But AmigaForever is a application as far as I am concerned.. so goes on my D (applications) drive.... and I dont like apps that try and spread themselves all over the place.. I prefer keep them contained.. so thats why AmigaForever is on my D drive.. and why I would have changed the default to keep it there.
(My backup schedule is different for my system drive and apps)
Anyway - the fact my AMigaFormat location has been moved to D is fully supported by AMigaForever (I have not done anything not avail in the installer).
I would suggest that if you add a folder into the "Shared" drive in OS 4.1FE .. you will find it appear in the "workbench" directory within the "Shared" location you posted in your reply... let me know if not the case.
I did use a "Create copy" of the preconfigured "Amiga 4000 PPC"... and used the copy to install my OS 4.1 FE... I assume that creates a copy of the 750MB hdf.... but have not double checked.
I have NO IDEA why you say I should not have the shared folder "where you have installed Amiga forever"... why? as I said.. I done nothing not allowed by the AF installer... and sure.. if I want max performance ... I would spread the install over drives (and put on an SSD... my D drive is WD Black HDD) but for a system that I hardly use.. and is just a technical test/play thing... why the hell not?

Cheers
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Old 06 January 2021, 13:33   #17
ma693541
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Have you tried to run AmigaForever with Administrator Rights and see what happens?
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Old 07 January 2021, 00:18   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma693541 View Post
Have you tried to run AmigaForever with Administrator Rights and see what happens?
Thanks for your reply... I did not explain fully... the original issue with extracting etc.. it would partially work... so it would extract a large number of files.. but fail to complete... and the files were written to disk... so I dont think it a Admin rights/permissions thing.

Anyway - I did some retests just now.. and I am even more confused now

So... First test.. I copied the AmigaOS4.1FinalEditionUpdate2-final.lha file (the one I successfully extracted and updated my install with) to the "shared" drive, renamed it to "update2.lha" (just to save typing... and then tried to extract the file with a "lha x Update2.lha shared:" shell command... it ran for a bit.. but then hung. SO I checked in windows.. and it had written files to the drive.. but obviously got stuck.

So... closed the OS4.1 system down.. deleted the partial extract in windows.. and restarted the OS4.1 system again.

I went back into the "Shared:" drive, where my "update2.lha" was still there.. and this time ran a "lha x update2.lha ram:" command... and it started to extract.. but the failed with a disk full error... with the ram disk showing 100% full (no problem.. it always does).. and 68.4 MB used..

I thought..."hang on.. when I got it to work.. I had the original update2.lha file in Ram: before.. and did the extract to Ram: and it worked.. so how can it be full with just extracted files?"

So..,. shut down OS4.1 system.. and restarted it...

This time I recreated what had worked before... I copied the update2.lha file from shared: to Ram: ... and then in a shell command from the RAM: issued the command "lha x update2.lha ram:" and it worked.. it extracted all files.. and used 119MB IIRC.

So this set of experiences makes no sense...
I will retest again when I have some more time.

If you or anyone has a logical explanation for whats going on here.. I would love to hear it.

Cheers
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Old 09 January 2021, 00:15   #19
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While we wait for me do more tests/retests... can anyone with a AmigaOS4.1 install under AmigaForever (latest version 8.3.7) try and reproduce my tests/experiences and let us know (either way.. let us know if all Ok.. or if you see same/similar problems).
If it just me.. we can put it down to some kind of corrupt install.. and I will nuke it and start again. But would be very interested in others experiences.
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Old 11 January 2021, 02:03   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoji View Post
While we wait for me do more tests/retests... can anyone with a AmigaOS4.1 install under AmigaForever (latest version 8.3.7) try and reproduce my tests/experiences and let us know (either way.. let us know if all Ok.. or if you see same/similar problems).
If it just me.. we can put it down to some kind of corrupt install.. and I will nuke it and start again. But would be very interested in others experiences.
No problems here. The only difference for me was that instead of using the
"LHA x update.lha" method, I just double clicked the icon for the download
and extracted/installed that way.

Interesting to note though is that I kept getting a guru for the file selector
but I would kill the process restart it and it ran without problems
afterwards.
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