Conversion Capers: Rygar

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

I already know that.

I was refering to the mountain (and the lake) tiles in the first level. Replacing the mountains with the (eventually color reduced) originals ones would make Rygar conversion really faithful to the arcade original...
Attachment 53456

Well maybe Invent can tell us about that ?

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

I already know that.

I was refering to the mountain (and the lake) tiles in the first level. Replacing the mountains with the (eventually color reduced) originals ones would make Rygar conversion really faithful to the arcade original...
Attachment 53456

We had to do that, because parallax layer is made by HW sprites! Not bad our result!

Our results in my humble opinion is better!

[chb]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

We had to do that, because parallax layer is made by HW sprites! Not bad our result!

Our results in my humble opinion is better!

Yep, the mountains look better (albeit they are not original), but I think you should mention at some point that they are ripped from the first level of Kid Chaos, and give Andrew Morris/Magnetic Fields some credit...

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by chb

Yep, the mountains look better (albeit they are not original), but I think you should mention at some point that they are ripped from the first level of Kid Chaos, and give Andrew Morris/Magnetic Fields some credit...

I dont' know were it came from! But it look great!

[sandruzzo]

In order to use interleved blit we have to have 1mb of chip mem

[LeCaravage]

1Mb Chip ? Gonna not work on my Amiga 500 OCS

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by LeCaravage

1Mb Chip ? Gonna not work on my Amiga 500 OCS

not possible to have interleaved gfx with 512k

[sandruzzo]

Interleaved on with scrolling. Now objects blitting

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by LeCaravage

1Mb Chip ? Gonna not work on my Amiga 500 OCS

Man, come on, 1MB is the standard for years.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Akira

Man, come on, 1MB is the standard for years.

...well it depends; are we talking "1MB Chip" or "512KB Chip & 512KB Slow".

If the latter then I agree

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by DamienD

...well it depends; are we talking "1MB Chip" or "512KB Chip & 512KB Slow".

If the latter then I agree

1mb chip mem

[alpine9000]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

1mb chip mem

Yes - would not be able to have lots of bob graphics if you are doing triple buffering with full interleaved blits with 6 bit planes in 512kb. Those masks really chew up the chip ram.

I think 1mb chip is perfectly reasonable for 64 colours,

[idrougge]

Maybe, but by then you're no longer in a position to lay judgment on those who ported games in the 80s/90s.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Maybe, but by then you're no longer in a position to lay judgment on those who ported games in the 80s/90s.

There was no halfbright 64 colors scrolling games back in the days. It was considered as being too slow.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

There was no halfbright 64 colors scrolling games back in the days. It was considered as being too slow.

It's Amiga Magic! After 30 years, It is able to show us How powerfull is it!

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

There was no halfbright 64 colors scrolling games back in the days. It was considered as being too slow.

You're missing his point.

Part of the reason for Sandruzzo doing this conversion is to show that the Amiga can do a decent version of some of the arcade games that appeared on the Amiga, and not the crap we did get.

However, what Idrougge is saying is that if you now make the conversion 1meg chip ram only, you've now raised the basic requirements of the hardware to ABOVE what was available to people doing the conversions back in the 1980's.

If this Rygar conversion is Sandruzzos statement of saying "there Tiertex, thats how a conversion is done", then thats great.

however, if you've raised the hardware level to 1meg chip ram which wasn't available in commercially sensible enough numbers to require it in the late 80's, then you're already at an advantage over Tiertex!

If Sandruzzo REALLY wanted to prove a point, Rygar would be a 512k game just like Tiertex and all the others had to cope with, if he can't do it in 512K, then it goes that criticising others for not being able to do it either in 512K shows that they did what they could with the hardware available.

I'm not defending Tiertex, my opinion of them is well known, but with 1meg of chip ram, you're already programming on hardware that exceeds what was available to most developers.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

You're missing his point.

Part of the reason for Sandruzzo doing this conversion is to show that the Amiga can do a decent version of some of the arcade games that appeared on the Amiga, and not the crap we did get.

However, what Idrougge is saying is that if you now make the conversion 1meg chip ram only, you've now raised the basic requirements of the hardware to ABOVE what was available to people doing the conversions back in the 1980's.

If this Rygar conversion is Sandruzzos statement of saying "there Tiertex, thats how a conversion is done", then thats great.

however, if you've raised the hardware level to 1meg chip ram which wasn't available in commercially sensible enough numbers to require it in the late 80's, then you're already at an advantage over Tiertex!

If Sandruzzo REALLY wanted to prove a point, Rygar would be a 512k game just like Tiertex and all the others had to cope with, if he can't do it in 512K, then it goes that criticising others for not being able to do it either in 512K shows that they did what they could with the hardware available.

I'm not defending Tiertex, my opinion of them is well known, but with 1meg of chip ram, you're already programming on hardware that exceeds what was available to most developers.

I'm not against this on that. What it has been done it's done. We're here to have fun, and do our best. I don't think that 1mb chip is a great requirment. Maybe I'kk found that 1mb isn't necessary to do 64 colors conversion...

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

You're missing his point.

Part of the reason for Sandruzzo doing this conversion is to show that the Amiga can do a decent version of some of the arcade games that appeared on the Amiga, and not the crap we did get.

codetapper statement was :

I'm really curious to know what approach you personally would take if you had to convert this game to the Amiga! eg:

1) Would you go for 32 colours/half-brite/dual playfield mode?
2) What memory requirements do you think you could achieve?
3) What would you use the 8 sprites for?
4) Would you drop the parallax layer or make it smaller?
5) Do you think you could make a version of the game running at 50 frames per second or you'd go for 25 (or perhaps 25 for updating everything but smooth scrolling the screen at 50fps to fake it)
6) How would you handle the water animation? Would you use colour cycling?
7) Would you double, triple or even single buffer the screen?

512kb is not enough to make halfbright games. You need 1mb at least to make 64 colors games.

To key to these games is mostly having enough memory in fact.

Anima showed with Ghouls'n'Ghosts on Atari STE that the CPU is not the key, but the actual ram available.

Even in 16 colors, GNG requires at least 4mb of ram !

However, what Idrougge is saying is that if you now make the conversion 1meg chip ram only, you've now raised the basic requirements of the hardware to ABOVE what was available to people doing the conversions back in the 1980's.

Well true. 1mb became the main standard in 1991, with Alien Breed release.
From then on, the publishers went doing 1mb games.

If this Rygar conversion is Sandruzzos statement of saying "there Tiertex, thats how a conversion is done", then thats great.

Tiertex = all done with the 68000 + 16 colors only (even Mercs had been thought to be ported to the Atari ST).

For the moment, What Sandruzzo is doing is so many times above anything we had back in the day.....

It also shows that sharing the same cpu confirms that it's not enough to make a good port.

however, if you've raised the hardware level to 1meg chip ram which wasn't available in commercially sensible enough numbers to require it in the late 80's, then you're already at an advantage over Tiertex!

His choice comes from the use of the 64 colors in halfbright. That's clever, because until now, all the amiga coders just bragged how impossible it was to make fast scrolling games on the A500 in 64 colors because 6 BPL is just too slow.

Sandruzzo just show how wrong they were !

If Sandruzzo REALLY wanted to prove a point, Rygar would be a 512k game just like Tiertex and all the others had to cope with, if he can't do it in 512K, then it goes that criticising others for not being able to do it either in 512K shows that they did what they could with the hardware available.

There has never been a limitation from the start about the ram required to run Rygar.

this was not the feature posed by Codetapper when he opened this thread.

[sandruzzo]

@dlfrsilver

It's not how I'm able to programm with Amiga, but How wonderfull all of us are Able! This Rygar it's only possible because of you, Codetapper, Trachu, Invent, Simone, and all thta are helping with testing and support.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

@dlfrsilver

It's not how I'm able to programm with Amiga, but How wonderfull all of us are Able! This Rygar it's only possible because of you, Codetapper, Trachu, Invent, Simone, and all thta are helping with testing and support.

It was the first time for me

Well once Rygar is completed, it would be cool to try to port a game like Shinobi for example, or a capcom CPS game on A1200