English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 13 May 2019, 11:47   #1
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
A4000 CompactFlash IDE Upgrades. Worth it?

Hi,


I'm replacing a 10gb SCSI drive in an A4000 with a 256Gb CompactFlash card and an IDE-CF adapter.

As I understand it the A4000's max throughput is 3.6MB (roughly 28.8Mbit) while the CF card's max throughput is around 150/130Mbps thanks to UDMA7.

At the moment drive speed isn't an issue, but I'm planning to get a 16-bit soundcard and do some fairly heavy (for an Amiga) audio work.

I've looked at the FASTATA as an option, but this seems a bit overkill for a CF card. I've also read that people have had trouble booting from it with certain configurations.

Does anyone have any suggestions for getting the most from an IDE adapter? I'd like to be able to write DVD images at some point, too. I have an IDE DVD-RW.

Steve

Last edited by stevelord; 13 May 2019 at 11:47. Reason: formatting
stevelord is offline  
Old 13 May 2019, 12:20   #2
Locutus
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 960
Just plain throughput isn't the only item to worry about.

You mention a 10GB SCSI drive, what controller do you have that attached to?

IDE on a A4000 (same for FastATA) is all PIO, so the CPU has to do all the work, resulting to high CPU load when you really push it.

SCSI can be DMA on Amiga, resulting in far lower CPU use, for Audio work this might be preferable.

Either way, modern storage media (CF/SD cards connected to either IDE or SCSI using adapters) will be far faster then any Amiga host controller.
Locutus is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 01:56   #3
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Ok, I've pulled the lid off and had a poke around. It's erm... an interesting place, a little... custom...

Turns out the 10Gb drive isn't SCSI, it's IDE. It's just using SCSI.device off the main A4000 IDE connector. I guess if I want to go SCSI -> CF I'd need a Z3 SCSI card for such shenanigans.

Does anyone have any meaningful stats about PIO overheads on a 68040 or 68060?
stevelord is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 07:48   #4
Jope
-
Jope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Age: 39
Posts: 7,357
Just go IDE -> CF in this case. You don't have a DMA SCSI system currently, so it will not be a downgrade for you.
Jope is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 13:16   #5
S0ulA55a551n
Registered User
S0ulA55a551n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rhondda, Wales
Age: 42
Posts: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
Just go IDE -> CF in this case. You don't have a DMA SCSI system currently, so it will not be a downgrade for you.
Always been impressed with my FastATA, not cheap but removes most of the CPU overhead
S0ulA55a551n is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 13:27   #6
Jope
-
Jope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Age: 39
Posts: 7,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n View Post
Always been impressed with my FastATA, not cheap but removes most of the CPU overhead
Not DMA either, but faster than the onboard IDE.
Jope is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 16:01   #7
hooverphonique
ex. demoscener "Bigmama"
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fyn / Denmark
Posts: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelord View Post
Turns out the 10Gb drive isn't SCSI, it's IDE. It's just using SCSI.device off the main A4000 IDE connector.
Yes, Commodore named their IDE device "scsi.device" across the board, presumably for "compatibility" reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelord View Post
Does anyone have any meaningful stats about PIO overheads on a 68040 or 68060?
Btw, there are mods for improving speed of the onboard IDE (look for e.g. "A4000 PIO2 mod"), but it requires replacing the 2 IDE PAL chips.
hooverphonique is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 17:05   #8
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooverphonique View Post
Yes, Commodore named their IDE device "scsi.device" across the board, presumably for "compatibility" reasons.
It also accepts SCSI commands and behaves like other SCSI devices, so the name kinda makes sense from that perspective.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 16 May 2019, 19:28   #9
nogginthenog
Amigan

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
Just go IDE -> CF in this case. You don't have a DMA SCSI system currently, so it will not be a downgrade for you.
The other alternative is IDE -> mSATA

See this thread: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=83491

My adapter mounts in a zorro slot but I can't see it for sale anymore:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...7&postcount=18
nogginthenog is offline  
Old 17 May 2019, 19:36   #10
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
The other alternative is IDE -> mSATA

See this thread: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=83491

My adapter mounts in a zorro slot but I can't see it for sale anymore:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...7&postcount=18

That's insanely cool, and I now wish I'd done that instead. The Delock compact flash adaptor I got from Vesalia doesn't seem to want to play ball with the A4000's internal IDE. Nothing appears in the boot menu and I can't seem to get very far booting.



I've messed around with jumpers but no dice, the DVD-Writer's in slave configuration but between this and the A3660 I'm trying to get up and running, I'm not doing well!
stevelord is offline  
Old 17 May 2019, 20:09   #11
theq
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beyond the Wall
Age: 42
Posts: 59
What CF card are you using?
theq is offline  
Old 17 May 2019, 20:24   #12
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
A 4Gb Indmem card that came with the adapter from Vesalia.de. I've prepped it in WinUAE, formatted, installed ClassicWB3.9, but nothing appears as a drive in the pre-boot menu.
stevelord is offline  
Old 17 May 2019, 20:50   #13
theq
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beyond the Wall
Age: 42
Posts: 59
Did you try without the slave configuration too, as in just the CF card alone?
theq is offline  
Old 17 May 2019, 21:54   #14
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Yes. It hangs for a while, presumably trying to enumerate IDE, then if I go to the early startup control I can only see DF0.
stevelord is offline  
Old 18 May 2019, 16:37   #15
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Some extra cables arrived this morning and I went through the jumper dance again.


Setting JP1 to External/44-pin IDE and using a molex to 4-pin floppy adapter on the side made it spring into life.


This has been pretty frustrating, as the IDE is 40-pin, and the 40-pin setting doesn't work. Also the supplied IDE cable has a filled in central pin on each connector, meaning I can't actually use it in the Amiga 4000. I expected better of Vesalia tbh.


In case anyone has a similar Delock 91624 IDE-CF converter problem and stumbles across this thread, my (working) jumper settings are:


JP1: 1-2
JP2: 1-2
JP3: 1-2
stevelord is offline  
Old 18 May 2019, 17:10   #16
theq
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beyond the Wall
Age: 42
Posts: 59
Great you figured it out
theq is offline  
Old 19 May 2019, 16:53   #17
nogginthenog
Amigan

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelord View Post
Also the supplied IDE cable has a filled in central pin on each connector, meaning I can't actually use it in the Amiga 4000. I expected better of Vesalia tbh.
In the past I've solved this by heating up a pin and inserting it into the filled in section.
nogginthenog is offline  
Old 21 May 2019, 11:14   #18
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
In the past I've solved this by heating up a pin and inserting it into the filled in section.

Ouch!


Ok, I've got it up and running with a 256Gb CF card now. This is incredible.


I have a full WHDLoad, TOSEC apps collection, Fred Fish, Assassins, LSD Legal Tools, an entire Aminet mirror, UneXoticA and the complete Modland FTP.


What a time to be alive!
stevelord is offline  
Old 21 May 2019, 13:07   #19
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 1,434
Now make a backup image of your cf card using something like win32diskimager before the card become corrupted and you lose the lot
trixster is offline  
Old 21 May 2019, 14:10   #20
stevelord
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
Now make a backup image of your cf card using something like win32diskimager before the card become corrupted and you lose the lot

Is that something that happens often? I was planning on doing semi-regular backups while I'm recovering files from old disks, then sorting something out via SMBFS once I have my ZZ9000.
stevelord is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kickstart chip upgrades on A500 - worth doing? Silwuff Hardware mods 4 16 August 2016 14:55
IDE CF Vs. SCSI HD - Worth it? edd_jedi support.Hardware 9 16 May 2013 13:21
Is it worth to have sound card in A4000 ? bebek support.Hardware 8 18 October 2010 19:06
Will the X-Surf's IDE controller work with CompactFlash cards? papa_november support.Hardware 5 21 September 2009 20:50
Prepping compactflash as IDE drive rare_j support.Hardware 12 03 September 2009 12:03

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.10289 seconds with 13 queries