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Old 16 August 2019, 19:07   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touko View Post
The PCE has some impressive shmups .

Gate of thunder(here a hack with TF's musics and some GFX ).
[ Show youtube player ]

sapphire:
[ Show youtube player ]

lords of thunder:
[ Show youtube player ]

Star parodia:
[ Show youtube player ]

The impressive forgotten worlds conversion:
[ Show youtube player ]

And the soldier series .



Gate of Thunder easily beats 99% of all others horizontal classic shmups. It's feels like an improved version of Thunder Force III. Never liked Thunder Force IV. It's a technical show off, far to hectic and unbalanced compared to part III.
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Old 16 August 2019, 20:03   #42
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Never liked Thunder Force IV
Me too, i prefer by far TF3, or even gleylancer .
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Old 17 August 2019, 12:27   #43
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Whoever wrote that Amiga section knows nothing about shmups....
Nah, he knows it just fine - you just generally don't like euro shooters as much as JP ones. Massive difference.
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No, but seriously, Banshee and Disposable Hero are decent efforts. Not great games, but not bad either.
They're better than at least 75-80% of all shoot em ups ever made.
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Project-X in the other hand, I'll stand my ground... it's a technically amazing piece of software used in a very bad game. It's the 2nd most overrated Amiga game ever. Level design (lol) and gameplay are awful.
I'll stand my ground as well. Project-X is a decent, above average shoot em up. It's not the best, but calling it bad is just 'the cool thing to do'. It's not based on facts. Level design is not great, but it's not 'lol'. Gameplay is not the best, but it's not 'awful'.

I've played hundreds of shooters. I know what makes a bad shooter, and Project-X is not it. You've also played a ton of shooters, so you know you're wildly exaggerating. Now, Xenon-2... Yeah, that is pretty bad.

Last edited by roondar; 17 August 2019 at 12:32.
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Old 17 August 2019, 15:50   #44
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I could write an essay about why Project-X is crap, but I think we can settle on about just disagreeeing

The remark about the guy knowing nothing about shmups was just a joke

Have you played X2 ?
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Old 17 August 2019, 16:08   #45
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When I first saw Project X, I was very very impressed. It looked to me like 1:1 perfect port from some arcade game. Not only graphics, but the gameplay, the way it respond instantly on commands, the various upgrades, where anyone can pick the fvorite weapon combination.
And I am still impressed to this day... just played it the other day.

I admit, I am not so much into the shoot em up (or "shoot em side" ), but I played these games from time to time (never finished any), so as an average player, I really don't see what's wrong with Project X.
If someone can show me (much) better Amiga shooters, so I can google them out and see, maybe I'l understand better.
Right now, I don't see what Project X needs to offer more then it gives already.

But yeah, we can agree to disagree.
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Old 17 August 2019, 16:34   #46
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
I could write an essay about why Project-X is crap, but I think we can settle on about just disagreeeing
Probably best, because I could write an essay on why you're wrong

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Have you played X2 ?
I did not like X2 at all (I'm assuming you mean PSX sequel to Project X). I wanted to like it as it looked rather nice and I had enjoyed Project-X, but it had a fatal flaw. Even fully upgraded every enemy took like 10 billion hits. This was already one of the weaker points in Project-X and they upped it to 12 (1 past 11!!!!!) here.

And then there was the cheesy FMV

On topic of other interesting shooters, what did you think of Dragon Breed (or the whole 'sit on a dragon and kill stuff') genre?
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Old 17 August 2019, 16:39   #47
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About Project-X

TL;DR:

Design is bland, heavy-inertia controls are always a big NO on shmups, lack of music, no sense of flow, no thought given to weapon balance, no cool set-pieces, boring gameplay, no music during gameplay, no level design at all.


Long post:

Quote:
I admit, I am not so much into the shoot em up (or "shoot em side" ), but I played these games from time to time (never finished any), so as an average player, I really don't see what's wrong with Project X.
If someone can show me (much) better Amiga shooters, so I can google them out and see, maybe I'l understand better.
Right now, I don't see what Project X needs to offer more then it gives already.
Going only with horizontal scrollers:

Apidya, Z-Out, Silkworm, R-Type, Dragon Breed, R-Type 2. All of them way better than Project-X. None of them look as good, I admit, but they all play way better.

Could also add Uridium 2 which I find to be a great game, but that's such an unique game that I find hard to compare it with another games.

Quote:
the way it respond instantly on command
No it doesn't. Thats the main problem with Project-X among a huge list of problems.

Give Project-X to any seasoned shmup veteran to play for the first time and in 3 seconds of playing any of them will scream the same thing:

"WHY THE FUCK MY SHIP SKIDS ALL AROUND?"

This was one of the main problems with euro-shmups, and one that shows how european devs were usually more about showing coding skills than actually desiging a proper working game.

Shoot'em ups are all about precision movement. They are about squeezing your little ship in the middle of those shitload purple/orange pixels trying to kill you. You want *PRECISE* movement. This doesn't exist on Project-X, because the ship controls like a fucking tank. Go at the shmups forum and ask what people think about shmups with inertia, and see people lightining up torches. And it's for a reason.

The weapons are unbalanced. Now while the Gradius Power Bar has its issues, it was an ingenious design which many people copied wrong, including Team 17. In Gradius you basically have just 2 main weapons - Laser and Double. And they BOTH are useful depending on what level you are. Everything else are cumulative Power Ups. The thing with the Gradius Power Up bar was about giving you strategy liberty to choose how you want to upgrade your ship. Do you want to get a better weapon first, or are you going to invest in speed ups? Do you go quickly for the Force Field? Or do you grab all options before anything? Later games even expanded upon this allowing the player to customize his own power bar, choosing the order of the powers ups.

Project-X is all about getting that one better weapon than the others. Its "similar" to the Gradius Power Up, yet it doesn't work so well because the game isn't designed properly to work with it. Also there's huge shortage of power ups in certain levels, which makes it even worse.

And then... the game has no level design or any sense of flow. You have one enemy, it attacks you at a timed wave. The same type of enemy will attack you up until his time is over. When time ends, no more of that enemy, new enemy comes up. You are basically attacked by one single type of enemy during a limited amount of time. This is specially silly with the mid-bosses, because you kill one, ANOTHER IDENTICAL ONE shows up and keep attacking you until the time ends and he just leaves. It make the whole battle pointless, you can just concentrate on avoid his attacks, because if you kill him, another one will just appear and keep killing you.

And the enemy attacks are just... uninspired. You have to deal with a heavy inertia-driven truck as a ship to avoid insanely boring waves made of a single type of enemy. Like I said, there's no sense of flow, no sense of advancing trough a challenge, it's just the chore of going from one enemy after the other up until randomly the final boss appear. You can't even sense if the level is ending or nothing, because there's no sense you are advancing through anything or going anywhere. It's just boredom with a flying truck.

Compare it with R-Type or Gradius (Or if you want an Amiga game, Apidya), where levels have rhtym, flow, where enemy waves seem to be designed to give you enough room to manouver among them WHILE trying to crushing you instead of just reapeting one single motion, and where you can *feel* the level advancing, the enemy patterns evoluting to something bigger near the end of the level. Where different types of enemy attack together to create new patterns for you to learn and dodge. Do you remember when you first saw that ring of turrets in the 1st level of R-Type, or the first type you got to the volcanos on Gradius, or when you figured out the attacks of the praying mantis at the end of the 1st level of Apidya? Project-X is completely devoid of moments like this.

And generally it also feels souless, generic, with a huge lack of excitement all around (The lack of music also helps with feeling). Rico Holmes art usually felt a bit like this, like it was technically amazing but with no soul to it. The whole game feels like this. It's like they wanted to prove they could to a technically good Shoot'em up, but they didn't even like shoot'em ups to start with. It's like they made a game ticking checkboxes:

Player controls a ship? Check
There's stuff to blow up? Check
Things attack the player? Check
There are different weapons to choose from? Check
Runs at 50 fps on overscan so everyone can drool about my coding skills? Check.

And that's it. No thought was giving to make everything work together.

Last edited by Shatterhand; 17 August 2019 at 16:51.
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Old 17 August 2019, 16:45   #48
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I did not like X2 at all (I'm assuming you mean PSX sequel to Project X). I wanted to like it as it looked rather nice and I had enjoyed Project-X, but it had a fatal flaw. Even fully upgraded every enemy took like 10 billion hits. This was already one of the weaker points in Project-X and they upped it to 12 (1 past 11!!!!!) here.

And then there was the cheesy FMV

On topic of other interesting shooters, what did you think of Dragon Breed (or the whole 'sit on a dragon and kill stuff') genre?
I didn't like X2 either, but I really enjoyed how your ship becomes a huge mass weapon of destruction on later levels. I personally find it better than Project-X but just a little bit. It still has most of the flaws Project-X has, but at least there's a bit more of variety on it, and its weapon system is kinda fun to play with it. Since they obviously couldn't balance the weapons as pointed out in the previous game, they went like "Fuck it, give all weapons to the player". You acumulate the weapons power ups and never lose them even when you die. Around 60% of the game lenght you have powered up everything and its hilariously fun to see all that power being unleashed.

Unlike Project-X though, this one is very easy, I remember I finished it on my 2nd or 3rd try.

I enjoy Dragon Breed, and I think the Amiga port is very nice, in spite of being an Atari ST port and having the issue of "Music or SFX" which I really hate on Amiga games. I usually like what Irem made before they fucked up everything with R-Type Final

ST Dragon in the other hand I don't like as much, but its not a bad game at all. The Amiga port is also very good.

Can't remember other "Dragon riding" shmups.... Dragon Spirit maybe? Phelios? (Though I think it was a flying horse, not a dragon )... Cyvern?

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Probably best, because I could write an essay on why you're wrong
Fuck it, sorry, I think I just did it. Your turn

(Seriously, I love discussing about games and I know people won't always agree with me. That's fine, just the discussion is always great to have. Different people will like different games and that's great )

EDIT: I must say writing stuff like this here really helps me out practicing my english. Sometimes I re-read what I wrote and see I wrote things wrongly or just had some difficulty at articulating my thoughts. I could explain my issues with P-X so better if I was writing in portuguese

Last edited by Shatterhand; 17 August 2019 at 16:52.
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Old 17 August 2019, 17:59   #49
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Ok, so you were warned

Note: I'll be comparing segments of the game to other shooters. When I do so, this is not mean to say those shooters are bad. Just to point it out.
Also note: I do not think Project-X is the best ever shooter, or even a very good one. I feel it's above average, no more. However, that still doesn't change that calling it a bad or crap game is an extremely exaggerated statement to my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
"WHY THE FUCK MY SHIP SKIDS ALL AROUND?"

This was one of the main problems with euro-shmups, and one that shows how european devs were usually more about showing coding skills than actually desiging a proper working game.
Ahem. Most euro shooters do not have inertia. Project-X is one of the few games that actually does. And even there, pick up a single speed up or choose the fastest ship and the problem is essentially removed.
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Shoot'em ups are all about precision movement. They are about squeezing your little ship in the middle of those shitload purple/orange pixels trying to kill you. You want *PRECISE* movement. This doesn't exist on Project-X, because the ship controls like a fucking tank. Go at the shmups forum and ask what people think about shmups with inertia, and see people lightining up torches. And it's for a reason.
Get the speedup after picking up some weapons, use the smallest ship. Basically removes all inertia. Again, Project-X isn't the best ever game, but it's designers knew that some people wouldn't like inertia so they offered 'a way out'. They probably should've put it in the manual.
Quote:
The weapons are unbalanced. Now while the Gradius Power Bar has its issues, it was an ingenious design which many people copied wrong, including Team 17. In Gradius you basically have just 2 main weapons - Laser and Double. And they BOTH are useful depending on what level you are. Everything else are cumulative Power Ups. The thing with the Gradius Power Up bar was about giving you strategy liberty to choose how you want to upgrade your ship. Do you want to get a better weapon first, or are you going to invest in speed ups? Do you go quickly for the Force Field? Or do you grab all options before anything? Later games even expanded upon this allowing the player to customize his own power bar, choosing the order of the powers ups.

Project-X is all about getting that one better weapon than the others. Its "similar" to the Gradius Power Up, yet it doesn't work so well because the game isn't designed properly to work with it. Also there's huge shortage of power ups in certain levels, which makes it even worse.
You can play Project-X just fine using all of the weapons. The guns/plasma is a bit double and I'd agree that plasma is generally the best overall weapon, but that's it. The choice of missiles/side shot depends on your preferences and can make a difference. Sometimes it might even be the best choice to rush for the 'stealth' option.

It's not the best implementation of the idea, but far from the worst. There are some tactical choices to make here.

Where I disagree is how much better Gradius supposedly does this. There's an optimal path and when you look at people playing they tend to gravitate towards that optimum. It's selection has clear weak picks too. Double is almost always a bad pick, as is rushing forcefields. It does do this better, but it's by no means perfect.
Quote:
And then... the game has no level design or any sense of flow. You have one enemy, it attacks you at a timed wave. The same type of enemy will attack you up until his time is over. When time ends, no more of that enemy, new enemy comes up. You are basically attacked by one single type of enemy during a limited amount of time. This is specially silly with the mid-bosses, because you kill one, ANOTHER IDENTICAL ONE shows up and keep attacking you until the time ends and he just leaves. It make the whole battle pointless, you can just concentrate on avoid his attackings, because if you kill him, another one will just appear and keep killing you.
This is not completely accurate. It happens with some mid-bosses, but not all. The mid-boss thing was also mostly eliminated in the special edition.

As for no design or flow, the levels very clearly progress from easy(ish) to hard. That is design by definition. It might not be awe-inspiring, but it is there.
Quote:
And the enemy attacks are just... uninspired. You have to deal with a heavy inertia-driven truck as a ship to avoid insanely boring waves made of a single type of enemy. Like I said, there's no sense of flow, no sense of advancing trough a challenge, it's just the chore of going from one enemy after the other up until randomly the final boss appear. You can't even sense if the level is ending or nothing, because there's no sense you are advancing through anything or going anywhere. It's just boredom with a flying truck.
Most of these 'insanely boring waves' are clearly inspired by waves from other shoot-em ups. Not very inspired and the use of mostly a single enemy is a bit underwhelming though, I grant you that.

As for bosses appearing 'randomly', perhaps you should check out Gradius again. This does the very same thing, but worse. There is no indication a boss is about to be there at all in that game. Some bosses literally appear in the middle of another wave of enemies.

Quote:
Compare it with R-Type or Gradius (Or if you want an Amiga game, Apidya), where levels have rhtym, flow, where enemy waves seem to be designed to give you enough room to manouver among them WHILE trying to crushing you instead of just reapeting one single motion, and where you can *feel* the level advancing, the enemy patterns evoluting to something bigger near the end of the level. Where different types of enemy attack together to create new patterns for you to learn and dodge. Do you remember when you first saw that ring of turrets in the 1st level of R-Type, or the first type you got to the volcanos on Gradius, or when you figured out the attacks of the praying mantis at the end of the 1st level of Apidya? Project-X is completely devoid of moments like this.
I can still remember the first time I figured out how to dodge the missiles at the end of Project-X stage one and the thrill that gave. Or the appearance of the three ships that rotate around themselves in level one, which was pretty cool. Or how to deal with the odd movement of the bees in level two. Or the sudden bonus stage where it went all super-duper-fast.
Quote:
And generally it also feels souless, generic, with a huge lack of excitement all around (The lack of music also helps with feeling). Rico Holmes art usually felt a bit like this, like it was technically amazing but with no soul to it. The whole game feels like this. It's like they wanted to prove they could to a technically good Shoot'em up, but they didn't even like shoot'em ups to start with. It's like they made a game ticking checkboxes:

Player controls a ship? Check
There's stuff to blow up? Check
Things attack the player? Check
There are different weapons to choose from? Check
Runs at 50 fps on overscan so everyone can drool about my coding skills? Check.

And that's it. No thought was giving to make everything work together.
On the contrary, plenty of thought was given to making everything work together. It's certainly not a great game, but the elements do work together. This is easy to see by looking at actually bad shoot em ups.

Perhaps try one of those genuinely bad shooter for a change. You know, the type where enemies have no patterns at all and just randomly fling themselves in your general direction (or not) hoping something sticks. The type without bosses or power ups. The types where your weapons are super overpowered or so weak no enemy can be killed. The type with bosses that literally spew random bullets (as in no pattern at all) at you and take 10.000 hits to kill. The games with tons of technical issues. The games where the player ship is 25% of the screen but a single hit kills you. The games where the enemies and player bullets are so small you can't actually hit anything. The games were collision detection does not work at all, or randomly. The games were you or the enemies you lose control. The games with power ups that kill you. The games that just randomly crash.

Now.. Those games are bad. Project-X is not one of those games.

Perhaps your definition of bad is the problem

Last edited by roondar; 17 August 2019 at 18:22.
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Old 17 August 2019, 18:25   #50
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@Shatterhand

Thanks for taking time to write so detailed post. Now I understand better your objections. As I say, I was never that much into shoot em ups, so couldn't participate in any deep comparisons between various games and systems.
However, here is some things I noticed:

- Inertia:
I never felt ship had any inertia. When I release joystick, it stops just where it is.
Maybe, since there is a 3 ships to choose from, some of them have inertia?
I don't see inertia here at all:
[ Show youtube player ]

- You want to kill all mid-bosses, because you want to get weapon upgrade, and leaving them alive reduces your chance to survive later stages of the game where more powerful guns is more then recommended.

- Not sure about level design you mentioned. Isn't most shoot em ups have the same "level design", to start with 1943. The weakest enemies attacks you, then a little stronger, then combination, then boss, and so on.
Isn't the whole point of shoot em ups to memorize attack patterns, and master the game that way?
I might be wrong, of course.

As for Apidya, I never played it, though I know about it. Looks really nice, and wlil definitely try it.
Silkworm was more like 8-bit era shooter, and I know this sounds stupid, don't get me wrong, it is still AMAZING game, and I loved to play it.
Too bad 1943 was not good port (that I also enjoyed on my C64).
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Old 17 August 2019, 19:23   #51
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Some of them have more inertia, others has less. They thought it would be fun "Oh, let's give the stronger ships more inertia so it feels like they are heavier for being more stronger" or something. But they all do, and looking at 5 seconds of this video I can see where the Inertia is.

1943 on Amiga was piss-poor for no reason. Another game the Amiga should have no trouble to do but it was really bad :/

Quote:
The weakest enemies attacks you, then a little stronger, then combination, then boss, and so on.
I
Give me one single moment on that video where the "Combination" you mention appears. It doesn't happen. Its just "One enemy attacks" , then "Another enemy attacks" and so on. There's no rythm, no patterns, no set pieces, no flow. But checking the video I see very late on the game they actually copied the famous R-Type ring. Except here its completely boring, hehe. (I never finished Project-X exactly because I always found it boring... and yes, it's very hard, so no reason to keep trying to beat a hard game I absolutely dislike)

Oh, there's another thing that always annoyed me on Project-X that this video remembered me, and its something that happens on a lot of european games overall:

8 fucking minutes for the first level. Not even Compile who were famous for their long-ass games* and levels would make a first level in a shmup last for 8 minutes. It's just adds to the whole lack of flow of the game.

* I love Compile. Anyone who knows me knows I have nearly a devotion to their games, I have a huge appreciation for their work, even more considering the amount of stuff they released in the 80s being such a small team by then. It's amazing they could do SO MANY games and ALWAYS keep the quality high, considering how many games they were releasing at such a short time.

But fuck, their shmups could really be a little less longer. Most of their games will hit the hour mark which is very long for a shmup... and then you have stuff like Gulkave that takes around 80 minutes to be beaten with stages that are SO repetitive...

And Final Justice. The fact they actually cared to give that game an ending is hilarious. It's one those games that just keep going and you think it's never going to end, it's just procedurally creating the levels and I'm ok with that, then you beat level 99 and out of nowhere "HEY, YOU BEAT THE GAME, HERE'S AN ENDING SEQUENCE SO YOU KNOW YOU'VE BEATEN THE GAME". I guess that was more a joke from them (The first thing the end sequence says is "I GIVE UP!"), but still.... it's a trademark from them, hehe.
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Old 17 August 2019, 19:32   #52
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Roondar, I won't keep bickering the issue, we just disagree and that's ok

I still think if people in Europe had played more arcade/japanese shooters back at the day, people wouldn't be praising Project-X

But thats ok

But I have to reply this:

Quote:
It's selection has clear weak picks too. Double is almost always a bad pick, as is rushing forcefields. It does do this better, but it's by no means perfect.
NO! Double is very useful at many spots. If we talking about the first Gradius, you can finish the game with any weapon at any point or even with no power ups at all. (Hard but its doable). But level 4 and level 7 at least are a lot easier with double and options than the laser. Double will also help a lot on the Moai level, because you can destroy the incoming fire from above. If you just have laser you have to manouver your ship a lot on that spot, with double not so much.

And about the boss appearing from nowhere... you have music changing, you have the battle that comes "before" the boss to warm you up, you know shit is coming at you. Just the change of the music already sets the tone, and on every level there's something different coming on.

I'll let you defend Project-X alright BUT DON GO ON ATTACKIN GRADIUS on my watch

I am sucker for those Konami Shmups, though I think they set the difficulty bar WAY to high with 3 and 4. And the Parodius games, oh my God, I really *LOVE* them.

I mean, damn it, go play Parodius Da! (To mention a game that it's actually older) then come back to Project-X and tell me "Oh, they are nearly as good" Come on


R-Type and Gradius are Godsends on the Shmups realms. Those games are uber-fantastic. They are huge classics with merit.
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Old 17 August 2019, 19:43   #53
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8 fucking minutes for the first level.
Try the special edition. It's much shorter at about five minutes
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Roondar, I won't keep bickering the issue, we just disagree and that's ok
Sure thing.
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I still think if people in Europe had played more arcade/japanese shooters back at the day, people wouldn't be praising Project-X
I'm not praising it. I'm saying there's a difference between mediocre/middle of the road and bad. And I feel very strongly there are a bunch of extremely good Euro shooters that get flak mostly because they're different than Japanese ones, not actually worse.
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BUT DON GO ON ATTACKIN GRADIUS on my watch
It's not an attack. It's a comparison. Even Gradius isn't perfect
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Old 17 August 2019, 20:46   #54
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Give me one single moment on that video where the "Combination" you mention appears. It doesn't happen. Its just "One enemy attacks" , then "Another enemy attacks" and so on.
You're right.
I was pretty sure, the other day when I played it, that second wave of asteroids comes with additional enemy ships.
Now I looked at the video I posted, and don't see that.

Yeah, I see what's bothering you. Basically all the waves are same on every level, second level is maybe the worst, because some waves repeats, like 3 times, and are exactly the same.
They should have made more variations with the mixes of the waves.

I liked the bonus level though, seems to me like a good add-on, and it plays music. However, it seems incredibly hard to me. I think to memorize it, I would need 50 tries to play it.

What about Project X special edition? What's exactly the difference, is someone knows? Is it listed somewhere?
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Old 17 August 2019, 21:02   #55
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What about Project X special edition? What's exactly the difference, is someone knows? Is it listed somewhere?
See HOL notes for both games:

... Project-X
... Project-X (Revised Edition)
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Old 17 August 2019, 21:26   #56
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Thanks Damien.

I also did peak at reviews, and here is the results:
Project X:
Amiga Format - 75%
Amiga Power - 78%

Project X SE:
Amiga Format - 90%
Amiga Power - 86%

So, maybe our friend Shatterhand should give a chance to SE edition.
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Old 17 August 2019, 21:50   #57
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I'll let you defend Project-X alright BUT DON GO ON ATTACKIN GRADIUS on my watch
Obviously Project-X is the far superior game.

With the voice announcer telling you which power up you can upgrade to at a specific moment ("Select now for..."), you can focus on the action AND know what you can upgrade to.

In Gradius, you are forced to look down at the text - BORING, if I wanted to read some text I'd rather read a book -, therefore losing precious milliseconds and leaving you in potential danger. But I guess it was an additional way for the developer to artificially raise the difficulty and grab your coins....

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Old 17 August 2019, 21:55   #58
d4rk3lf
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Now that was sarcastic comment on a pair with Blackadder.

I am also a little bit annoyed of repeating voice.
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Old 17 August 2019, 22:14   #59
roondar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilalurl View Post
Obviously Project-X is the far superior game.

With the voice announcer telling you which power up you can upgrade to at a specific moment ("Select now for..."), you can focus on the action AND know what you can upgrade to.

In Gradius, you are forced to look down at the text - BORING, if I wanted to read some text I'd rather read a book -, therefore losing precious milliseconds and leaving you in potential danger. But I guess it was an additional way for the developer to artificially raise the difficulty and grab your coins....

Indeed and not only that but they deliberately made the levels in Gradius short and focussed so that you get to the end of the game way too fast.

And don't even get me started on the lack of Copper gradients and pausing for nearly-eternal decrunching phases after each level. Total rubbish, I tell you
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Old 17 August 2019, 22:21   #60
malko
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
[...] Konami Shmups, [...]
+1
This one had a big WAOUH ! effect for me BitD (PS: I do like Parodius as well)

[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by malko; 17 August 2019 at 23:01. Reason: typo
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