English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Apps

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 13 August 2017, 18:08   #1
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
workbench.library - Should I update it?

I have redone my A600 install after putting a 3.1 ROM in it, so I have a pretty vanilla WB 3.1 setup on it and have started upgrading it as best as I know.

One thing I never did before is change workbench.library. Should I care about updating it? I noticed it conflicts with some of MultiCX 2.80's patches (WBABOUT does not work, WBGAUGE creates issues as .137 comes with its own ugly gauge).

Any experience shared about this very much appreciated.
(And while we are at it, what other system libraries should I change?)
Akira is offline  
Old 13 August 2017, 19:23   #2
idrougge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 3,941
The WB is the best thing about 3.9 since it is immensely scriptable.
idrougge is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 01:34   #3
gulliver
BoingBagged

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South of nowhere
Age: 42
Posts: 2,160
If you are using a 68000 Amiga only use workbench.library v45.127 + setpatch v44.x to activate it (unless you are burnin it into rom).

If you have a 68020 or better, I would personally use v45.132.

V45.137 was done by Cosmos and should be considered alpha state.
gulliver is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 04:37   #4
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
I see. I'll revert to .132. Thanks!
I still would like to know if there is any advantage to this or not. Anywhere I can see a changelog or anything? My workbench use is modest, don't need too much, just a stable system that looks OK.
Akira is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 10:00   #5
gulliver
BoingBagged

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South of nowhere
Age: 42
Posts: 2,160
Well, I dont have a changelog of workbench.library since v40.5 (OS3.1).But from a user point of view there are several new tangible features:

-Icons displayed no longer show a grey frame around them. This difference is particularly observable when using wallpapers and workbench window patterns/pictures other than the default grey color.
-Workbench has a full Arexx port which allows you to modify it in a clean way, without having to deal with nasty patches. An example of this can be seen with the program THE, that allows you to add items and keyboard shortcuts to the workbench tools menu.
-Workbench menus have been overhauled. Now you even have a Find menu item which runs SYS:System/Find.
-Pressing the Help key opens up amigaguide.guide which is buried under the Locale drawer. You can replace this .guide with a custom built one.
-Execute workbench menu item, has a browse gadget. Easier for when you dont remember the executable´s filename.
-When you make a new drawer you can at the same time optionally create an icon for it.
-Copy, move and delete workbench operations now display a progressbar.
-Volume sizes are displayed in gigabytes, which is more comfortable when using today´s HDD dimensions.
-There is a comfortable preferences program that allows you to configure some workbench functions (Sys:Prefs/Workbench). You can alternatively use WBCtrl (Aminet has v1.5. I have seen v1.8 somewhere else, but I cant remember right now).
-The delete key erases currently selected files and drawers.

There are much more features than these, but this is all I can remember right now.

Anyway, if in doubt or if you want a complete and crystal clear picture of what workbench.library v45 brings to the table, I suggest you contact Olaf Barthel, as he is one of the authors of it (his nickname is "olsen" here).
gulliver is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 15:38   #6
daxb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,600
Have a look at NDK_3.9.lha releasenotes. It starts with V44.99.
daxb is online now  
Old 14 August 2017, 17:18   #7
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
Well, I dont have a changelog of workbench.library since v40.5 (OS3.1).But from a user point of view there are several new tangible features:

-Icons displayed no longer show a grey frame around them. This difference is particularly observable when using wallpapers and workbench window patterns/pictures other than the default grey color.
-Workbench has a full Arexx port which allows you to modify it in a clean way, without having to deal with nasty patches. An example of this can be seen with the program THE, that allows you to add items and keyboard shortcuts to the workbench tools menu.
-Workbench menus have been overhauled. Now you even have a Find menu item which runs SYS:System/Find.
-Pressing the Help key opens up amigaguide.guide which is buried under the Locale drawer. You can replace this .guide with a custom built one.
-Execute workbench menu item, has a browse gadget. Easier for when you dont remember the executable´s filename.
-When you make a new drawer you can at the same time optionally create an icon for it.
-Copy, move and delete workbench operations now display a progressbar.
-Volume sizes are displayed in gigabytes, which is more comfortable when using today´s HDD dimensions.
-There is a comfortable preferences program that allows you to configure some workbench functions (Sys:Prefs/Workbench). You can alternatively use WBCtrl (Aminet has v1.5. I have seen v1.8 somewhere else, but I cant remember right now).
-The delete key erases currently selected files and drawers.
Thanks so much for this! Really appreciated.
I got workbench.library on its own, but I didn't get the Workbench preferences pane. Where is one to get these things? I Don't recall seeing that panel on BetterWB either (maybe I didn't look well enough).
Akira is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 18:03   #8
emufan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: #DrainTheSwamp
Posts: 4,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
but I didn't get the Workbench preferences pane.
on the os39 cd. using it here on wb3.0/3.1 - in this case you need to update some
*.gadget, but it does work. some 3.5 gadgets are newer than those in 3.9 classes folder.
same goes for Find function, needs some v44 #?.image and #?.gadget
using it with workbench.library 45.137

Last edited by emufan; 14 August 2017 at 18:17.
emufan is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 19:07   #9
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
I don't own 3.9 nor intend to own it ever.
Akira is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 20:58   #10
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,806
Well, the updated Workbench is one of the many features OS 3.9 brought with it - it wasn't intended to be used with 3.1, so it's only natural that it will bring with it a bunch of dependencies and potential incompatibilities. The simplest way to get the OS 3.9 features is to install OS 3.9. I'm sure you can find an image of it somewhere though if you've no intention of buying it...
Daedalus is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 22:05   #11
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
But it works just fine on 3.1, that's the beauty of it! The only incompatibility I found is with a hack that is trying to do many of the things the library now does natively, so call it more of a "conflict"than an incompatibility (both ran happily together still, and all I had to do was remove those patches from the multipatch tool and that's it).

Gulliver has the upgraded library in his BetterWB package, it just doesn't have the Workbench Prefs I think.
Akira is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 22:49   #12
DamienD
disengaged
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 43
Posts: 17,758
Most definitely agree with Akira, thank you kindly for listing changes that you could think of gulliver

...very interesting indeed.
DamienD is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 23:10   #13
idrougge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 3,941
If you're going to install both the new Workbench, new scsi.device, new dos.library and new Exec, you've basically already installed OS 3.9.
idrougge is offline  
Old 14 August 2017, 23:56   #14
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
If you're going to install both the new Workbench, new scsi.device, new dos.library and new Exec, you've basically already installed OS 3.9.
I only installed the new Workbench library so far. You can't find those other libraries unless you get 3.9, can you? but you can get workbench.library elsewhere (like in BetterWB).

Doesn't 3.9 do a lot more than just that anyway?
Why does it need a 020+ and 6MB of Fast RAM? There's all thsoe memory-hungry icons and shit.

I can run this on a vanilla Amiga, at least.
Akira is offline  
Old 15 August 2017, 01:35   #15
idrougge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 3,941
You can swap out the icons just like you'd do with OS 3.1.

Workbench is probably the most memory-hungry part of the core OS 3.9, the rest of the memory hunger is icons and utilities. Of course, most 3.9 users are complacent and don't "downgrade" their systems, keeping BenchTrash, colourful icons, backdrops and AmiDock.
idrougge is offline  
Old 15 August 2017, 02:29   #16
matthey
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
I only installed the new Workbench library so far. You can't find those other libraries unless you get 3.9, can you? but you can get workbench.library elsewhere (like in BetterWB).
If BetterWB is using a patched version of the AmigaOS 3.9 workbench.library to work with earlier versions of AmigaOS then the legality may be in question unless the user owns a copy of AmigaOS 3.9. You might be able to find other AmigaOS 3.9 libraries which have been patched to work with earlier versions of AmigaOS if you look hard enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
Doesn't 3.9 do a lot more than just that anyway?
Why does it need a 020+ and 6MB of Fast RAM? There's all those memory-hungry icons and shit.
AmigaOS 3.9 needs a 68020+ for the simple reason that the developers did not compile everything for a 68000 target or provide both 68000 and 68020 executables. Some of the AmigaOS 3.9 executables are still 68000 compatible. Several AmigaOS 3.9 modules have grown as a result of new functionality and in some cases poor code optimization. In other cases, the performance has been improved considerably like the (later ThoR released) layers.library, dynamic memory performance with fragmented memory and CopyMem()/CopyMemQuick() in exec.library (at the same time these 3 important performance increases could be better optimized yet). The eye candy (most can be disabled) and some larger executables require more memory, faster disk access and more colors which are slow on older ECS/AGA Amigas and more than offset performance gains from AmigaOS 3.9. An Amiga with 68040+ and RTG should be faster with AmigaOS 3.9 than AmigaOS 3.1 though.
matthey is offline  
Old 15 August 2017, 03:19   #17
gulliver
BoingBagged

 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South of nowhere
Age: 42
Posts: 2,160
BetterWB does not use workbench.library 45.x for the simple fact that it is not usable on a 512KB Amiga.

I personally use on my high-end RTG 060 hardware AmigaOS 3.1 as a base and add some few 3.9 components like:

workbench.library 45.132 + setpatch 44.17
c:cpu which recognizes 68060 processors.
picture.datatype which is 24bit capable
I use nearly all 3.9 classes but avoid the datatype classes as I prefer third party ones like warpdatatypes.
From prefs I use workbench, pointer, screenmode and deficons
From tools I use Benchtrash and iconedit.

Instead of Amplifier, I prefer Thomas´ DAPlayer
Instead of Aweb I prefer Ibrowse and Netsurf
Instead of Genesis I use Miami Dx with a NMI driver.
I use PeterK´s icon.library

And then there is a lot more, but this is just a small sample

It is a lot of work to fine tune it, but then it is in my opinion, much better to base one´s system on a heavily modified 3.1 than to use 3.9.

You must remember that despite its numerous shortcomings, 3.1 was used on commercial embedded systems and critical mission application scenarios, whilst 3.9 never went out of the Amiga hobbyst niche. I prioritize robustness, reliability, leanness, and that is why I go with 3.1, but I heavily modify it to suit my needs.
gulliver is offline  
Old 15 August 2017, 06:52   #18
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
Sorry about the confusion then!
Besides what you just mentioned, then, do you use any of the otehr libraries and scisi.device idrougge mentioned?
Akira is offline  
Old 15 August 2017, 14:07   #19
daxb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,600
It all depends on what you want. If you want functionality than use OS3.9 as basis and change/shrink/downgrade/whatever to your needs is easier and the better choice IMO. Integrate OS3.9/5 stuff to OS3.1 can be really tricky and you don`t alway notice side-effects immediately. Especially if the OS3.1 system is already upgraded with a lot of third party stuff.

If you don`t use WB (much) then why you want to upgrade it. If it gives a more stable system then yes, else mybe no.
daxb is online now  
Old 15 August 2017, 16:14   #20
Akira
Black Lives Matter

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,273
I don't think what I have right now is unstable or conflicting. I am taking the same approach as Gulliver and to be honest I am happy with the result.
I dislike hacky shit and keep it pretty clear. I never use MUI, I don't have stuff like Visualprefs or Toolmanager, I ditched MCP in favor of MultiCX and that's probably the only "thirdparty" thing I have on it so I don't have to have a million little patches doing shit like removing the clicking from my floppy or having a screensaver.

Again, the only 3.5/3.9 thing I have in my setup is Workbench.library and I just put it there for the sake of updating. Everything is working just fine.

Even though I don't use WB that much (only as a means to launch WHDLoad shit), I want it to look and perform a certain way. Things like the gauge for disks and proper GB size show and more, are worth the effort in my opinion.

Thanks for your tip of looking at NDK39, I Manage to see all the updates it brings. Is 3.9 still updated or has it been left to rot?
By the way, idrougge, I don't see dos.library in that Release Notes document. Are you referring to DonAdam's unofficial dos.library?

Last edited by Akira; 15 August 2017 at 16:21.
Akira is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
workbench.library 45.132 patch to try out PeterK Coders. System 37 17 October 2017 13:32
Cloanto 3.x Rom A1200 install - Workbench.library? ccorkin support.Hardware 9 10 April 2017 01:41
well i have update my Workbench to Classic Workbench mcbone Amiga scene 0 02 May 2015 21:22
Mediator pci.library update Bamiga2002 News 3 02 January 2011 12:31
REQ: CGX update -> CGXSYSTEM.LIBRARY v42.7 keropi request.Apps 8 05 November 2006 22:04

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09207 seconds with 13 queries