Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask - Page 4

roy bates · 28 May 2013, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

no problem, just compress the data!

how? is that even possible and be readable after? i dont know.it would be fun to find out.

thomas · 28 May 2013, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by diablothe2nd

Why did Commodore choose to go for roms that aren't reprogrammable?? especially knowing that any bugs and updates cannot be fixed/applied?

I imagine that flash memory didn't exist or was too expensive back then. They considered the OS stable enough to freeze it into a ROM. For those machines which were ready before the OS was, they made it possible to load the Kickstart from disk (A1000, A3000).

I find it more stupid that they packed a whole operating system into the ROM but in order to activate it you still need a floppy disk. This floppy disk does nothing but call a specific ROM routine. This could as well be done from a button in the early startup menu. Everything needed to run a program is contained in the ROM.

daxb · 28 May 2013, 14:18

I guess they chosse ROMs because it was cheaper. Bug fixing was/is done with SetPatch. They exists several bugfixes from user.

Selfmade ROMs should be loaded from HD. Build one is more or less easy. With Remus just load your ROM and click on build. Then you have one. If it works, replace ROM modules.

Toni Wilen · 28 May 2013, 16:05

Flash memory was first available mid 1980s and big enough (and probably very very expensive) flash chips appeared early 1990s. (1992-93 or so)

Cymru · 28 May 2013, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

I imagine that flash memory didn't exist or was too expensive back then. They considered the OS stable enough to freeze it into a ROM. For those machines which were ready before the OS was, they made it possible to load the Kickstart from disk (A1000, A3000).

I find it more stupid that they packed a whole operating system into the ROM but in order to activate it you still need a floppy disk. This floppy disk does nothing but call a specific ROM routine. This could as well be done from a button in the early startup menu. Everything needed to run a program is contained in the ROM.

Perhaps they were just following the PC's and Macs of the period not wanting the Amiga to be looked upon as another C64?

Mrs Beanbag · 28 May 2013, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

how? is that even possible and be readable after? i dont know.it would be fun to find out.

You could compress it with powerpacker or lha or anything, decompress to RAM: from the startup-sequence, or I guess if we had the source code of the KickRom executable we could code a decompression routine into it. It's possible, anyway. It shouldn't be a very difficult thing to code from scratch if you knew what you were doing, I bet Leffmann could do it.

roy bates · 28 May 2013, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

You could compress it with powerpacker or lha or anything, decompress to RAM: from the startup-sequence, or I guess if we had the source code of the KickRom executable we could code a decompression routine into it. It's possible, anyway. It shouldn't be a very difficult thing to code from scratch if you knew what you were doing, I bet Leffmann could do it.

hmm interesting,i dont know how useful it would be from floppy though.
but it would be fun to see if its possible.

Mrs Beanbag · 28 May 2013, 19:02

you could possibly design a ROM that decompressed itself to RAM at startup, would be even more interesting.

Cymru · 28 May 2013, 19:03

Rather than compression (a very different and complex topic), if one were intent on building a large "ROM," then one could use Cosmo's ROMY (for sale on Amiga.org), FlashKick, or Deneb.

Mrs Beanbag · 28 May 2013, 19:09

compression is simple, I have written my own for Mr Beanbag

Cymru · 28 May 2013, 19:13

I'm sure you have; does he enjoy having it compressed?

Mrs Beanbag · 28 May 2013, 19:19

he wouldn't fit on a single disk without it :P

Lord Aga · 05 June 2013, 22:34

What the frell was this supposed to be:

diablothe2nd · 05 June 2013, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

What the frell was this supposed to be:

looks like testing pads. used to check the integrity of the board before shipping

zipper · 05 June 2013, 22:56

Pah, clock port without any pins, might be rev 2B.

diablothe2nd · 05 June 2013, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipper

Pah, clock port without any pins, might be rev 2B.

the clockport is nearer the bottom (out of shot of this image)

edit, saying that, the one in the image is P9A and the clockport is P9B... a quick glance at the photos doesn't reveal the connections to both being linked. would be silly to use valuable space to put two on there, surely?

Jack Burton · 05 June 2013, 23:52

Why the windows can't be moved past the borders on Amiga OS (like on some other OS that I forgot the name

) ? Was it a kind of limitation or because the guys simply didn't think about this feature ?

demolition · 05 June 2013, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

What the frell was this supposed to be:

According to this, it belongs together with P9B which has the clock port pins. When they made the 1200, they weren't sure whether it should have 1 or 2MB chipmem, so the connector would be used in case it was born with 1MB to place a 1MB upgrade board. Since it ended up having 2MB, there was no use for the connector.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

Why the windows can't be moved past the borders on Amiga OS (like on some other OS that I forgot the name ) ? Was it a kind of limitation or because the guys simply didn't think about this feature ?

Maybe they opted for maximum realism? If I push papers off beyond the edges of my desk, they will fall to the floor.

diablothe2nd · 06 June 2013, 08:04

oh wow

well that's my "learn something new everyday"

Lord Aga · 06 June 2013, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolition

According to this, it belongs together with P9B which has the clock port pins. When they made the 1200, they weren't sure whether it should have 1 or 2MB chipmem, so the connector would be used in case it was born with 1MB to place a 1MB upgrade board. Since it ended up having 2MB, there was no use for the connector.

Best explanation so far

28 May 2013, 19:03	#69
Cymru Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Dorathea/AT Posts: 376	Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask Rather than compression (a very different and complex topic), if one were intent on building a large "ROM," then one could use Cosmo's ROMY (for sale on Amiga.org), FlashKick, or Deneb.

28 May 2013, 19:13	#71
Cymru Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Dorathea/AT Posts: 376	Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask I'm sure you have; does he enjoy having it compressed?

05 June 2013, 22:56	#75
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,837	Pah, clock port without any pins, might be rev 2B. Last edited by zipper; 05 June 2013 at 23:01.

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28 May 2013, 14:18	#63
daxb Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 3,303	I guess they chosse ROMs because it was cheaper. Bug fixing was/is done with SetPatch. They exists several bugfixes from user. Selfmade ROMs should be loaded from HD. Build one is more or less easy. With Remus just load your ROM and click on build. Then you have one. If it works, replace ROM modules.

28 May 2013, 16:05	#64
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Flash memory was first available mid 1980s and big enough (and probably very very expensive) flash chips appeared early 1990s. (1992-93 or so)

28 May 2013, 19:02	#68
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	you could possibly design a ROM that decompressed itself to RAM at startup, would be even more interesting.

28 May 2013, 19:09	#70
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	compression is simple, I have written my own for Mr Beanbag

28 May 2013, 19:19	#72
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	he wouldn't fit on a single disk without it :P

05 June 2013, 22:34	#73
Lord Aga MI clan prevails Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 1,443	What the frell was this supposed to be:

05 June 2013, 23:52	#77
Jack Burton It's all in the reflexes! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wingkong warehouses Posts: 206	Why the windows can't be moved past the borders on Amiga OS (like on some other OS that I forgot the name ) ? Was it a kind of limitation or because the guys simply didn't think about this feature ?

06 June 2013, 08:04	#79
diablothe2nd Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Northamptonshire, UK Age: 41 Posts: 1,236	oh wow well that's my "learn something new everyday"

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