Atari St Owners!!!! - Page 4

TjLaZer · 12 September 2004, 20:40

If you want to compare two games try Space Harrier on the Amiga and ST. You will clearly see which one is better...

wlcina · 12 September 2004, 20:41

I dunno, which one ?

Amiga1992 · 12 September 2004, 21:09

I'm not even going to get into this "SID quality" or "SID like" sound shit.Not even in trying to explain again that the CPC, ZX and ST chips are THE SAME except for a slight difference on how something sounds in one waveform. If they sound different is because how the chip is implemented in the architechture, but as I said, it comes down to the chip being smoother or not (you said it ourself)

Please keep talking about "sync", having a poke at YM registers through ASM doesn't mean you know anything about music composition. I mean, you are saying a chip is comparable to another because someone had created an effect or technique that makes teh chip sound similar to ONE waveform of the SID. It's like saying "The Amiga' Paula is capable of delivering SID-quality sounds"

Amiga1992 · 12 September 2004, 21:23

I hada listen at the OGGs anyway. If you think that's SID quality sound, you seriously need to go to your room, lock yourself up for two days and listen to the whole HVSC collection, because that is NOT NEARLY CLOSE to how a SID sounds. That's pure, unadultered, YM sound!

(before a mudslinging begins, let me tell you I like the YM sound, but comparing it to the SID is not a smart thing to do, and IMO, teh SId is the more advanced chip. Otherwise, if the YM was so great, how come the ST users wanted to imitate the SID sounds? Trying to immitate the sound of an ooold 8bit commodore c64 chip in the 90s?

)

12 September 2004, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

If you want to compare two games try Space Harrier on the Amiga and ST. You will clearly see which one is better...

It does NOT matter which one is better. You guys are still missing the boat. What really matters is wether or not you like the Atari ST. TjLaZer, I happen to know that you have both Amiga Computers and Atari ST computers. So, why are you in this silly little debate about which computer is better?

Stefan Lindberg · 12 September 2004, 21:49

The SID is superior to YM2149 just like the Amiga 500 is superior to Atari ST... but still i don't mind YM-music.

"how come the ST users wanted to imitate the SID sounds?"
I think it's more that they wanted to evolve the sound, like the SID music scene evolved and got digidrums for example.
the "sid-voice" and "sync-buzzer" effects was not created to imitate the SID, they where made because it was possible to make them at all. I think the Atari ST music scene evolved great and taking advantage of the fact that the 4-bit soundchip is in a 16-bit computer

Because the sid-voice and sync-buzzer is only fake YM2149 sounds, they are not in the YM2149 specifikations... the effects are made by the Atari ST.
Spectrum and amstrad can't make these effects, at least i think so... not really sure.

Amiga1992 · 12 September 2004, 22:12

I haven't said SID is superior, as I tried to explain, both chips are unique and incomparable.

Digidrums on the SID scene mean nothing, specially for the SOUND, otherwise everyone will use them today, and instead, they chose not to, because they really sound like shit and add nothing to a piece.The evolution came in other aspects, and right now, they are, luckily, more "musical-oriented" than trying to be "technical orented". Some people with C64s today, the ones that I think are right now the most important for the future of SID music, are aware of what the SID is and what it can do, have the technical know-how to do with the chip whatever they want, and they use all its capabilities to create new music, real music. Some other people like to compose exactly like if this was 1986 and immitate the works by people like rob Hubbard. They do nothing for the "sound of the SID". Trying to make a chip imitate another is lame, why not use your unique chip's good and bad qualities and really push it? I have barely heard stuff for YM/Ay chips created with this in mind, this is not to blame on teh chip, but on teh composers!

I bet *might* be possible to make a ZX do that, I don't know, but as I said, it probably is a byproduct of the ST being clocked higher. Same thing as a SID inside a SIDstation.

12 September 2004, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan Lindberg

The SID is superior to YM2149 just like the Amiga 500 is superior to Atari ST... but still i don't mind YM-music.

"how come the ST users wanted to imitate the SID sounds?"
I think it's more that they wanted to evolve the sound, like the SID music scene evolved and got digidrums for example.
the "sid-voice" and "sync-buzzer" effects was not created to imitate the SID, they where made because it was possible to make them at all. I think the Atari ST music scene evolved great and taking advantage of the fact that the 4-bit soundchip is in a 16-bit computer

Because the sid-voice and sync-buzzer is only fake YM2149 sounds, they are not in the YM2149 specifikations... the effects are made by the Atari ST.
Spectrum and amstrad can't make these effects, at least i think so... not really sure.

You are STILL missing the boat! The Atari ST has built in MIDI ports and uses a General MIDI keyboard to play the music of many games. But, that does not matter. What really matters is DO YOU LIKE THE ATARI ST COMPUTER? If you do, then fine. If you don't, that's ok too. The Amiga and Atari ST are BOTH great computers. They both LOST the computer war to the PC and Macintosh.

Hillsy_ · 12 September 2004, 22:25

I would like to say I love both the AtariST and Amiga. Which one? Well I suppose the Amiga mainly due to having it for 8 years...but I admire the AtariST, but I admire Atari more for what they did to the gaming industry. They produced some excellent games back then.

About the sound of the machines....

Did you ever play Turrican on an AtariST & an Amiga? If you did you should have noticed that the music on the AtariST version cuts off...What I mean is, when you fire your weapon repeatively at the enemies the music would cut off...but on the Amiga version it didn't break the music...is this to do with the available sound channels for music and sound effects on the Amiga and AtariST..

sorry If I am diverting some of you....I am interested to know.

Thanks,

- Hillsy.

Stefan Lindberg · 12 September 2004, 22:53

Akira, i am not sure what you mean? you think most YM composers are bad?
I think the Atari ST musicscene is great at the moment, it's just not as many composers as for SID. the sid-voice technic is over 12 years old and digidrums even much older so the composers know what to use when composing and digidrums is not always used.
actually lately there is a new generation of composers on the ST who likes the digidrums technic because it fits their style of music.

like this music (has an experimental touch to it) :
http://shozan.sytes.net/~meth/ataris...u-tympanum.ogg

Stefan Lindberg · 12 September 2004, 23:00

forgot to write that the "sid-voice" on the Atari ST is caused by the MFP chip using timer 13, i don't know if spectrum have that chip or equal.

The sid-voice is an effect that is difficult to controll... it's like a phaser-sound that sound different everytime you play the music, so it's not always good for all types of compositions.

Amiga1992 · 13 September 2004, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomMaster

You are STILL missing the boat!

Please shut the fuck up. Your repetitiveness is annoying, why does anyone have to agree with the way you want tfor thsi thread?

If you want to know the answer to your question, go a page back and read that I LIKE THE BLOODY ST.

Your talk about MIDI ports and "general MIDI keybaord" is so laughable I won't even reply to it.

Hillsy: The music in Turrican Amiga doesn't "cut off" because the tFMX format has more channels of sound available, but this is done by software(clever programing). Same happened with Octamed. The meega only has 4 hardware channels of sound. But with the particular case of Turrican, I'm not sure, correct me if I'm wrong but the ST ony has 3 hardware channels. Amiga Turrican uses 3 channels for sound and 1 for FX (using 7 channels of TFMX would be much of a hog so this is only utilized in the intro music). If this is the case, the ST needs to cut one up to let the FX in.
Then people learned to do this "digidrum" thing they call, and faked a channel that lets you do samples. same happened on the C64.

Stefan: I'm not saying they are bad composer, maybe that what they are doing doesn't interest me. Same happens with LOTS of SID composers. I don't think they are taking the sound FORWARD.

So far there is only ONE current ST musician that I like, and he's Stu from DROPDABOMB.

from back in the 90s, I think only Hippel was the king.

13 September 2004, 01:57

Computers suck.

13 September 2004, 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Please shut the fuck up. Your repetitiveness is annoying, why does anyone have to agree with the way you want tfor thsi thread?

If you want to know the answer to your question, go a page back and read that I LIKE THE BLOODY ST.

Your talk about MIDI ports and "general MIDI keybaord" is so laughable I won't even reply to it.

Hillsy: The music in Turrican Amiga doesn't "cut off" because the tFMX format has more channels of sound available, but this is done by software(clever programing). Same happened with Octamed. The meega only has 4 hardware channels of sound. But with the particular case of Turrican, I'm not sure, correct me if I'm wrong but the ST ony has 3 hardware channels. Amiga Turrican uses 3 channels for sound and 1 for FX (using 7 channels of TFMX would be much of a hog so this is only utilized in the intro music). If this is the case, the ST needs to cut one up to let the FX in.
Then people learned to do this "digidrum" thing they call, and faked a channel that lets you do samples. same happened on the C64.

Stefan: I'm not saying they are bad composer, maybe that what they are doing doesn't interest me. Same happens with LOTS of SID composers. I don't think they are taking the sound FORWARD.

So far there is only ONE current ST musician that I like, and he's Stu from DROPDABOMB.

from back in the 90s, I think only Hippel was the king.

Well, your childish, rude behavior is annoying. Why are you such an asshole?! I never said anything about people having to agree with me in this thread, so YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!! I am the DoomMaster and I do NOT take any shit from anyone, especially a big-mouth punk like you who likes to be the center of attention. If you were here right in front of me talking that shit, I would beat the living shit out of you, PUNK!!!! Why is my talk about the Atari STs MIDI ports and General MIDI "laughable"? I made a good point. The main "sound chip" for an Atari ST is a General MIDI keyboard, not the Yamaha sound chip that is inside the Atari ST. The Yamaha sound chip puts out 3-voice mono sound, which sounds ok, but when an Atari ST plays a General MIDI keyboard, it plays it in stereo and with up to 16 voices. It sounds really AWESOME!. Because the Atari ST has always had built-in MIDI ports, a lot of software supports those MIDI ports. So when you compare an Amiga computer to an Atari ST with a General MIDI keyboard hooked up, they both sound really awesome. They are both great computers.

BippyM · 13 September 2004, 04:56

Quote:

I am the DoomMaster

I am BippyM, does that mean anything?

No!!

you repeating the above quote means absolutely nothing other than proving to the world how arrogant you actually are!

I have no problem with you other than your arrogance and know-it-all attitude!!

I never have and never will own an ST btw and I don't give a rats-ass what midi chip or keyboard it has!!!

13 September 2004, 05:07

Quote:

I am the DoomMaster

I am ... your father.

13 September 2004, 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bippym

I am BippyM, does that mean anything?

No!!

you repeating the above quote means absolutely nothing other than proving to the world how arrogant you actually are!

I have no problem with you other than your arrogance and know-it-all attitude!!

I never have and never will own an ST btw and I don't give a rats-ass what midi chip or keyboard it has!!!

Did you ever stop to think that just maybe "I do know it all"? I am not saying that I do, but I DO know more about the Amiga and Atari ST computers then you and most of the other people in this group. I am not being "arrogant" when I mention that I am the DoomMaster. Afterall, my name is indeed famous, but yours is not. Just accept that and stop being jealous or envious of me. I am actually a very nice guy. I just don't take any crap from people. I could be a good friend to you, but YOU must first change your attitude toward me.

13 September 2004, 05:15

I changed my mind. I'll be the Doommaster this time and you'll dress as a nurse...

Unknown_K · 13 September 2004, 05:41

What is with you people?

DoomMaster is famous? I don't care if you invented both the Amiga and the ST, your nothing but a pain in the ass this board does not need. Maybe if you just a little humility people here would not be picking on you, as it is you have no humility and will never get any respect.

Akira either ban this guy or just ignore him. Some people like attention good or bad, it gets them off.

Amiga1992 · 13 September 2004, 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomMaster

Why is my talk about the Atari STs MIDI ports and General MIDI "laughable"? I made a good point. The main "sound chip" for an Atari ST is a General MIDI keyboard, not the Yamaha sound chip that is inside the Atari ST. t

hahahahaahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah

Yes, my Amiga with a MIDI interface OBVIOUSLY sounds great when I connect it to a Korg Trinity! You silly fuck!

Just in case you didn't notice, we were discussing the sound synthesis capabilities of two computers with Stefan. If you are going to chip in, at least speak of what we speak, or avoid posting nonsensical garbage.

You make me laugh.

Unknown: I think it's best for everyone to ignore him, but right now, I'm enjoying having a laugh on expense of this character.

general MIdI keyboard

ahahaahahhahahahahahaha
DoomMaster is a great musician, and KNOWS IT ALL regarding music gear.

You surely are famous, but for all the wrong reasons. I wouldn't be proud if I was you!

12 September 2004, 21:09	#63
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I'm not even going to get into this "SID quality" or "SID like" sound shit.Not even in trying to explain again that the CPC, ZX and ST chips are THE SAME except for a slight difference on how something sounds in one waveform. If they sound different is because how the chip is implemented in the architechture, but as I said, it comes down to the chip being smoother or not (you said it ourself) Please keep talking about "sync", having a poke at YM registers through ASM doesn't mean you know anything about music composition. I mean, you are saying a chip is comparable to another because someone had created an effect or technique that makes teh chip sound similar to ONE waveform of the SID. It's like saying "The Amiga' Paula is capable of delivering SID-quality sounds" Last edited by Amiga1992; 12 September 2004 at 21:16.

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12 September 2004, 20:40	#61
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,916	If you want to compare two games try Space Harrier on the Amiga and ST. You will clearly see which one is better...

12 September 2004, 20:41	#62
wlcina Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Czech republic Posts: 580	I dunno, which one ?

12 September 2004, 21:23	#64
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I hada listen at the OGGs anyway. If you think that's SID quality sound, you seriously need to go to your room, lock yourself up for two days and listen to the whole HVSC collection, because that is NOT NEARLY CLOSE to how a SID sounds. That's pure, unadultered, YM sound! (before a mudslinging begins, let me tell you I like the YM sound, but comparing it to the SID is not a smart thing to do, and IMO, teh SId is the more advanced chip. Otherwise, if the YM was so great, how come the ST users wanted to imitate the SID sounds? Trying to immitate the sound of an ooold 8bit commodore c64 chip in the 90s? )

12 September 2004, 21:49	#66
Stefan Lindberg Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stockholm/Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 270	The SID is superior to YM2149 just like the Amiga 500 is superior to Atari ST... but still i don't mind YM-music. "how come the ST users wanted to imitate the SID sounds?" I think it's more that they wanted to evolve the sound, like the SID music scene evolved and got digidrums for example. the "sid-voice" and "sync-buzzer" effects was not created to imitate the SID, they where made because it was possible to make them at all. I think the Atari ST music scene evolved great and taking advantage of the fact that the 4-bit soundchip is in a 16-bit computer Because the sid-voice and sync-buzzer is only fake YM2149 sounds, they are not in the YM2149 specifikations... the effects are made by the Atari ST. Spectrum and amstrad can't make these effects, at least i think so... not really sure.

12 September 2004, 22:12	#67
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I haven't said SID is superior, as I tried to explain, both chips are unique and incomparable. Digidrums on the SID scene mean nothing, specially for the SOUND, otherwise everyone will use them today, and instead, they chose not to, because they really sound like shit and add nothing to a piece.The evolution came in other aspects, and right now, they are, luckily, more "musical-oriented" than trying to be "technical orented". Some people with C64s today, the ones that I think are right now the most important for the future of SID music, are aware of what the SID is and what it can do, have the technical know-how to do with the chip whatever they want, and they use all its capabilities to create new music, real music. Some other people like to compose exactly like if this was 1986 and immitate the works by people like rob Hubbard. They do nothing for the "sound of the SID". Trying to make a chip imitate another is lame, why not use your unique chip's good and bad qualities and really push it? I have barely heard stuff for YM/Ay chips created with this in mind, this is not to blame on teh chip, but on teh composers! I bet might be possible to make a ZX do that, I don't know, but as I said, it probably is a byproduct of the ST being clocked higher. Same thing as a SID inside a SIDstation.

12 September 2004, 22:25	#69
Hillsy_ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: West Yorkshire, UK Age: 51 Posts: 257	I would like to say I love both the AtariST and Amiga. Which one? Well I suppose the Amiga mainly due to having it for 8 years...but I admire the AtariST, but I admire Atari more for what they did to the gaming industry. They produced some excellent games back then. About the sound of the machines.... Did you ever play Turrican on an AtariST & an Amiga? If you did you should have noticed that the music on the AtariST version cuts off...What I mean is, when you fire your weapon repeatively at the enemies the music would cut off...but on the Amiga version it didn't break the music...is this to do with the available sound channels for music and sound effects on the Amiga and AtariST.. sorry If I am diverting some of you....I am interested to know. Thanks, - Hillsy.

12 September 2004, 22:53	#70
Stefan Lindberg Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stockholm/Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 270	Akira, i am not sure what you mean? you think most YM composers are bad? I think the Atari ST musicscene is great at the moment, it's just not as many composers as for SID. the sid-voice technic is over 12 years old and digidrums even much older so the composers know what to use when composing and digidrums is not always used. actually lately there is a new generation of composers on the ST who likes the digidrums technic because it fits their style of music. like this music (has an experimental touch to it) : http://shozan.sytes.net/~meth/ataris...u-tympanum.ogg

12 September 2004, 23:00	#71
Stefan Lindberg Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stockholm/Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 270	forgot to write that the "sid-voice" on the Atari ST is caused by the MFP chip using timer 13, i don't know if spectrum have that chip or equal. The sid-voice is an effect that is difficult to controll... it's like a phaser-sound that sound different everytime you play the music, so it's not always good for all types of compositions.

13 September 2004, 05:15	#78
oldpx Posts: n/a	I changed my mind. I'll be the Doommaster this time and you'll dress as a nurse...

13 September 2004, 05:41	#79
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	What is with you people? DoomMaster is famous? I don't care if you invented both the Amiga and the ST, your nothing but a pain in the ass this board does not need. Maybe if you just a little humility people here would not be picking on you, as it is you have no humility and will never get any respect. Akira either ban this guy or just ignore him. Some people like attention good or bad, it gets them off.

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