Problem with mouse on A600

KONEY · 13 March 2018, 20:58

Guys, I've got a really annoying mouse problem on my Amiga 600 + Vampire 2. Basically when I move it pointer would randomly move in any direction and random mouse buttons get pressed. It happens in workbench and in boot menu so I exclude it can be caused by some program.

So far I have:
checked with other mouses
had a full recap of the motheboard
replaced both CIAs

but the problem persists. I was quite sure replacing the CIAs would resolve the issue but no luck so far...

Any idea, please?

idrougge · 14 March 2018, 01:19

Does this happen without Mr Vampire as well?

KONEY · 14 March 2018, 11:04

I didn't check because I got rid of the kickstart rom, but I'll try since you suggest, thanks!

KONEY · 17 March 2018, 04:55

OK, no Vampire: same problem...

KONEY · 17 March 2018, 05:53

Also, I tried this little program http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/jswap and changed the porf for mouse but the problem persists.

Toni Wilen · 17 March 2018, 11:24

CIAs don't control mouse movement (CIA = left/fire button, Paula = second/third button, Denise = movement).

Most common reason for joystick direction/mouse movement problems is damaged TTL chip between mouse ports and Denise. (A500 = U15, A600 = U34)

But in your situation it can't be the cause because it can't explain random button presses.

Possibly bad power/ground connection?

MigaTech · 17 March 2018, 14:57

Have you checked the DE9 port itself? Also look for any trace problems. It could be a short or loose PCB pin. Is the other DE9 working OK?

volvo_0ne · 19 March 2018, 00:15

I had a similar problem (except the button press issue) AND it was just the same with my spare mouse.

I cured it by buying a PS2/usb (inc mouse) converter from Ebay which worked a treat.

I think it was only about £15 or so but it fixed the problem (strangely BOTH original mice exhibited exactly the same fault) .

Not sure if you want to go this route, but it worked for me.

robinsonb5 · 19 March 2018, 00:26

Are you using a real Amiga mouse or a PC mouse with an adapter?

r.cade · 09 July 2018, 02:22

I have this exact problem with my A600. In fact, I convert old Bus/Inport mice to Amiga, and this never works on the A600- it's like the circuitry is different.

The mice work fine on A500, A1000, A3000, but not A600. A600 only works with original mice. I don't have the button issue, but the mouse will not move properly, it just jitters and works it's way into a corner...

KONEY · 09 July 2018, 13:33

A600 is SMD technology, makes sense. At the moment I got an optical tank kit and I'm quite happy with it. Expensive but reliable.

Toni Wilen · 09 July 2018, 14:58

Interesting because mouse/joystick direction logic and circuitry is practically identical to A500.

Denise has 4 input pins for joystick/mouse ports and ports are multiplexed with 74LS157 TTL chip. (U34). This chip is most common cause for mouse/joystick direction problems, in A500 at least.

Perhaps SMD Denise has some internal IO pin differences?

Daedalus · 09 July 2018, 16:52

Yeah, it's a strange thing to mention SMD technology, since all the directional signals go through the 74LS157 chip, which should be functionally identical to its DIP counterpart. If you check any manufacturer's data sheets for logic ICs you'll see that they don't distinguish between package types when detailing I/O characteristics.

Have you tried different A600s? The original tank mouse uses a logic chip to buffer and drive the direction signals, but later Amiga mice don't have this, and conversion guides for other mice that I've seen don't include this chip either. This means that the photodiodes are driving the inputs directly, and I would say it's possible that these other mice are having some sort of trouble with that machine, perhaps a problem with pull-up resistors or similar that is masked by the buffered signal from a tank mouse and the open-circuit nature of a joystick. The 74LS157's inputs will float high in these cases, without a pull-up, but placing a photodiode across them is probably enough to drag them down, resulting in unreliable movement.

13 March 2018, 20:58	#1
KONEY Vampire 2 Amiga Musician Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Venice - Italy Posts: 376	Problem with mouse on A600 Guys, I've got a really annoying mouse problem on my Amiga 600 + Vampire 2. Basically when I move it pointer would randomly move in any direction and random mouse buttons get pressed. It happens in workbench and in boot menu so I exclude it can be caused by some program. So far I have: checked with other mouses had a full recap of the motheboard replaced both CIAs but the problem persists. I was quite sure replacing the CIAs would resolve the issue but no luck so far... Any idea, please?

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14 March 2018, 01:19	#2
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 3,678	Does this happen without Mr Vampire as well?

14 March 2018, 11:04	#3
KONEY Vampire 2 Amiga Musician Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Venice - Italy Posts: 376	I didn't check because I got rid of the kickstart rom, but I'll try since you suggest, thanks!

17 March 2018, 04:55	#4
KONEY Vampire 2 Amiga Musician Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Venice - Italy Posts: 376	OK, no Vampire: same problem...

17 March 2018, 05:53	#5
KONEY Vampire 2 Amiga Musician Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Venice - Italy Posts: 376	Also, I tried this little program http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/jswap and changed the porf for mouse but the problem persists.

17 March 2018, 11:24	#6
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 43 Posts: 22,105	CIAs don't control mouse movement (CIA = left/fire button, Paula = second/third button, Denise = movement). Most common reason for joystick direction/mouse movement problems is damaged TTL chip between mouse ports and Denise. (A500 = U15, A600 = U34) But in your situation it can't be the cause because it can't explain random button presses. Possibly bad power/ground connection?

17 March 2018, 14:57	#7
MigaTech Only Amiga !! Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 522	Have you checked the DE9 port itself? Also look for any trace problems. It could be a short or loose PCB pin. Is the other DE9 working OK?

19 March 2018, 00:15	#8
volvo_0ne Registered User Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 332	I had a similar problem (except the button press issue) AND it was just the same with my spare mouse. I cured it by buying a PS2/usb (inc mouse) converter from Ebay which worked a treat. I think it was only about £15 or so but it fixed the problem (strangely BOTH original mice exhibited exactly the same fault) . Not sure if you want to go this route, but it worked for me.

19 March 2018, 00:26	#9
robinsonb5 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 582	Are you using a real Amiga mouse or a PC mouse with an adapter?

09 July 2018, 02:22	#10
r.cade Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA Posts: 326	I have this exact problem with my A600. In fact, I convert old Bus/Inport mice to Amiga, and this never works on the A600- it's like the circuitry is different. The mice work fine on A500, A1000, A3000, but not A600. A600 only works with original mice. I don't have the button issue, but the mouse will not move properly, it just jitters and works it's way into a corner...

09 July 2018, 13:33	#11
KONEY Vampire 2 Amiga Musician Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Venice - Italy Posts: 376	A600 is SMD technology, makes sense. At the moment I got an optical tank kit and I'm quite happy with it. Expensive but reliable.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

09 July 2018, 14:58	#12
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 43 Posts: 22,105	Interesting because mouse/joystick direction logic and circuitry is practically identical to A500. Denise has 4 input pins for joystick/mouse ports and ports are multiplexed with 74LS157 TTL chip. (U34). This chip is most common cause for mouse/joystick direction problems, in A500 at least. Perhaps SMD Denise has some internal IO pin differences?

09 July 2018, 16:52	#13
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 3,486	Yeah, it's a strange thing to mention SMD technology, since all the directional signals go through the 74LS157 chip, which should be functionally identical to its DIP counterpart. If you check any manufacturer's data sheets for logic ICs you'll see that they don't distinguish between package types when detailing I/O characteristics. Have you tried different A600s? The original tank mouse uses a logic chip to buffer and drive the direction signals, but later Amiga mice don't have this, and conversion guides for other mice that I've seen don't include this chip either. This means that the photodiodes are driving the inputs directly, and I would say it's possible that these other mice are having some sort of trouble with that machine, perhaps a problem with pull-up resistors or similar that is masked by the buffered signal from a tank mouse and the open-circuit nature of a joystick. The 74LS157's inputs will float high in these cases, without a pull-up, but placing a photodiode across them is probably enough to drag them down, resulting in unreliable movement.