IDE delay problem with 3.1 Rom ?

José · 26 April 2015, 12:52

Anyone knows if later IDE drives also had problems booting with A1200's with 3.1Roms, which supposedly have a bigger IDE delay ?
I'd had a rev 1A A1200 motherboard for some time and finally decided to put some use to it after selling my other A1200. I bought a Fujitsu 60Gb IDE HDD to go with it and formated it with WinUAE. The machine goes super fast right away into the "insert disk" screen after cold boot, no delay at all! And yes, roms are 3.1. If I do a warm reset after this it boots into WB3.1 normally.
I noticed there is a wire on the motherboard when I assembled it, maybe similar to the the top right brown one seen on this pic of a 1D1 rev:http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/phot...res=hi&lang=en, so maybe it's a partial timing fix because the 1A only needs that one (?) ...

_psy · 26 April 2015, 14:06

you can see this page : http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/a1200/a1200.html

on hard drives it has some nice info,

maybe thats the reason :

Q. Why doesn't my A1200 boot off the hard drive when I first turn it on?

A. Many hard drives don't spin up fast enough to be ready when the A1200 is ready to boot. If you can reset the A1200 after it comes up with the purple "insert floppy" screen and it will then boot from the hard drive, this is the case. The easiest solution is to just live with it and reset the machine when you first turn it on. If this really bothers you, you could replace the drive with one that spins up faster. Alternatively, AmigaOS 3.1 (if your A1200 doesn't already have it) has a longer IDE drive delay.

José · 26 April 2015, 15:05

THanks, but I already have 3.1, which has bigger delay. Since the machine is booting straight on to the "insert disk" right away without waiting I don't think this is the problem...

FOL · 26 April 2015, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by José

THanks, but I already have 3.1, which has bigger delay. Since the machine is booting straight on to the "insert disk" right away without waiting I don't think this is the problem...

Do you have an accelerator or PCMCIA card inserted?
As this can effect timing and cause issue you have.

José · 26 April 2015, 16:12

"Do you have an accelerator or PCMCIA card inserted?
..."

None.

_psy · 26 April 2015, 18:42

try with another drive if you can find, because maybe the bigger 3.1 delay isnt enough or try a CF card adapter

Daedalus · 27 April 2015, 14:46

A long time ago there used to be a requirement to disconnect the reset line to some drives - perhaps this is the reason? Reset is pin 1 of the IDE cable/connector, and depending on the construction of the cable, it might be easy to remove just that wire and have it not connected to the hard drive. Worth a go anyway, as if you're careful not to damage the wire or connector, it can be put back afterwards if it proves to not be the problem.

Since it's showing the boot floppy screen, something is telling the machine that the IDE port is ready when it's not bootable. Therefore it can't really be because the delay is too short. Do you have another drive on the cable as a slave? Maybe try taking that off if you do...

Jope · 27 April 2015, 15:36

The 30sec delay is there so that you don't have to cut the reset line.. The slowest disk should have enough time to self test before scsi.device gives up.

Daedalus · 28 April 2015, 09:50

Yep, I understand that, but since the delay isn't happening at all, something else funky is happening with the boot procedure, i.e. the delay being too short is *not* the problem. I don't know what the problem is, but if you're careful, the pin1 thing is quick and easy to try.

José · 28 April 2015, 14:32

One thing I remembered was that maybe someone had modded the motherboard directly to avoid the IDE delay when using a scsi controller. This mobo was bought second hand more than ten years ago so I don't even remember who I bought it from... taking off the rf shield and case etc.. again wasn't on my plans..

Maybe I'll just live with it for a while until I get bored...
I have no other drive, actually I got it completely bare with just the hdd and it's doing the same. BTW, the jumpers on the drive are set to master of course..

Daedalus · 28 April 2015, 17:56

Ah, in that case they could just have connected resistors to the internal IDE port lines - can't remember the pins required but I do remember that it was simple to add a couple of resistors to an IDE connector to get the delay to be skipped. Why someone would do it directly on the motherboard is a mystery though...

José · 29 April 2015, 14:27

I just reminded something, is WinUAE behaving exactly like an A1200 if I choose the default bare A1200 config and add an HDD ?
Cause the drive did work Ok like that. The rom's I have on WinUAE are the same, dumped from my A1200.

@Daedalus Absolutely, so maybe it isn't that...

26 April 2015, 12:52	#1
José Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Olhao/Portugal Age: 47 Posts: 49	IDE delay problem with 3.1 Rom ? Anyone knows if later IDE drives also had problems booting with A1200's with 3.1Roms, which supposedly have a bigger IDE delay ? I'd had a rev 1A A1200 motherboard for some time and finally decided to put some use to it after selling my other A1200. I bought a Fujitsu 60Gb IDE HDD to go with it and formated it with WinUAE. The machine goes super fast right away into the "insert disk" screen after cold boot, no delay at all! And yes, roms are 3.1. If I do a warm reset after this it boots into WB3.1 normally. I noticed there is a wire on the motherboard when I assembled it, maybe similar to the the top right brown one seen on this pic of a 1D1 rev:http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/phot...res=hi&lang=en, so maybe it's a partial timing fix because the 1A only needs that one (?) ...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
CyberStorm MK1 060 problem - delay line chip heat and freezes	altcomputing	support.Hardware	1	17 November 2013 22:57
Problem with Alien Breed SE: key delay	hutton80	support.Games	0	10 November 2010 19:49
ide cd rom	Dave_wb	support.Hardware	3	31 December 2006 13:49
No more 30sec IDE delay on a scsi A4000 ...	keropi	Hardware pics	2	11 October 2006 13:02
Ide Cd Rom Sound	Dave_wb	support.Hardware	4	13 October 2005 13:53

26 April 2015, 14:06	#2
_psy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Thessaloniki/Greece Age: 44 Posts: 117	you can see this page : http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/a1200/a1200.html on hard drives it has some nice info, maybe thats the reason : Q. Why doesn't my A1200 boot off the hard drive when I first turn it on? A. Many hard drives don't spin up fast enough to be ready when the A1200 is ready to boot. If you can reset the A1200 after it comes up with the purple "insert floppy" screen and it will then boot from the hard drive, this is the case. The easiest solution is to just live with it and reset the machine when you first turn it on. If this really bothers you, you could replace the drive with one that spins up faster. Alternatively, AmigaOS 3.1 (if your A1200 doesn't already have it) has a longer IDE drive delay.

26 April 2015, 15:05	#3
José Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Olhao/Portugal Age: 47 Posts: 49	THanks, but I already have 3.1, which has bigger delay. Since the machine is booting straight on to the "insert disk" right away without waiting I don't think this is the problem...

26 April 2015, 16:12	#5
José Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Olhao/Portugal Age: 47 Posts: 49	"Do you have an accelerator or PCMCIA card inserted? ..." None.

26 April 2015, 18:42	#6
_psy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Thessaloniki/Greece Age: 44 Posts: 117	try with another drive if you can find, because maybe the bigger 3.1 delay isnt enough or try a CF card adapter

27 April 2015, 14:46	#7
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	A long time ago there used to be a requirement to disconnect the reset line to some drives - perhaps this is the reason? Reset is pin 1 of the IDE cable/connector, and depending on the construction of the cable, it might be easy to remove just that wire and have it not connected to the hard drive. Worth a go anyway, as if you're careful not to damage the wire or connector, it can be put back afterwards if it proves to not be the problem. Since it's showing the boot floppy screen, something is telling the machine that the IDE port is ready when it's not bootable. Therefore it can't really be because the delay is too short. Do you have another drive on the cable as a slave? Maybe try taking that off if you do...

27 April 2015, 15:36	#8
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	The 30sec delay is there so that you don't have to cut the reset line.. The slowest disk should have enough time to self test before scsi.device gives up.

28 April 2015, 09:50	#9
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Yep, I understand that, but since the delay isn't happening at all, something else funky is happening with the boot procedure, i.e. the delay being too short is not the problem. I don't know what the problem is, but if you're careful, the pin1 thing is quick and easy to try.

28 April 2015, 14:32	#10
José Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Olhao/Portugal Age: 47 Posts: 49	One thing I remembered was that maybe someone had modded the motherboard directly to avoid the IDE delay when using a scsi controller. This mobo was bought second hand more than ten years ago so I don't even remember who I bought it from... taking off the rf shield and case etc.. again wasn't on my plans.. Maybe I'll just live with it for a while until I get bored... I have no other drive, actually I got it completely bare with just the hdd and it's doing the same. BTW, the jumpers on the drive are set to master of course..

28 April 2015, 17:56	#11
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Ah, in that case they could just have connected resistors to the internal IDE port lines - can't remember the pins required but I do remember that it was simple to add a couple of resistors to an IDE connector to get the delay to be skipped. Why someone would do it directly on the motherboard is a mystery though...

29 April 2015, 14:27	#12
José Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Olhao/Portugal Age: 47 Posts: 49	I just reminded something, is WinUAE behaving exactly like an A1200 if I choose the default bare A1200 config and add an HDD ? Cause the drive did work Ok like that. The rom's I have on WinUAE are the same, dumped from my A1200. @Daedalus Absolutely, so maybe it isn't that...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)