QUARTZ title sound problems (Wally Beben - experts only)

andreas · 21 October 2005, 04:03

Well yes, this is not by pure luck that I put sound magician Wally Beben in parentheses, as when in 1000 games, sound with 999 games was done by others, and one by Wally Beben, this will be the very one that usually doesn't work

Dunno whether he is known for utterly torturing the hardware when making his tunes, but I wouldn't be surprised if ...

Note that the sound differences most probably cannot be heard from the common listener, hence this is meant mostly for those guys with expertise thru listening to game MODs and the like.
Please download the QUARTZ version from the zone, put sound emulation to 100% (always essential for Beben, that is!) and listen CAREFULLY.
I can hear bleeps at VERY high frequencies (> 5000 Hz), lots of other noise and bleeps that are not audible on my miggy (I've just transferred that version to real disk!); not in the very first seconds, but later! That is, at great part, *very much* later even...

The most "broken" part is the second of two parts where the slap bass can be heard solo (with only sparse drum accompaniment, i. e. no diatonic instruments; however, do not confuse with first slap bass/drum part, I mean the second one, much later, with the drums/percussion playing a solo N. C. part first, then the slap bass joins in)

Please tell me that I'm not fantasizing.

OddbOd · 21 October 2005, 08:17

It's not just you however I can hear it both in WinUAE (in the ADF, EXE and CAPS versions, so it's not a cracking bug) and on my A2000. At first I thought it might have been because my accelerator was turned on as this causes some graphic corruption but even in 68000 mode it still does the same thing. Strangely the problem is worse in WinUAE with longer tones that I cannot hear on my Amiga.

The bleeps start at the very first "wah-wah-wah-one" sample at the beginning of the tune with some very short tones and then, just like you said, some longer tones can be heard during the slap-bass part.

Toni Wilen · 21 October 2005, 08:24

Sound filter and testing on an A1000?

A1000's sound filter can't be disabled by software (dimming/turning off the power led) like on other Amiga models.

andreas · 21 October 2005, 12:55

Quote:

Strangely the problem is worse in WinUAE with longer tones that I cannot hear on my Amiga.

Indeed, that is just it!

Toni, I knew my A1000 has no switchable filter, but this problem has hardly anything to do with filter. The high-frequent, very loud bleeps are both audible with filter on and off. It must have to do something with the samples used, as with the slap-bass part, there is a bleep after *almost every* note.

FromWithin · 21 October 2005, 14:03

It's probably just a bad bit of data in the sample, or badly looped. I'll try it on my 4000 later when I need a work break.

andreas · 21 October 2005, 20:16

Thank you!

Galahad/FLT · 22 October 2005, 00:12

I think its a bug in Quartz. When I did an AGA fixed one file version, some of the samples are clipped too early.

andreas · 22 October 2005, 01:24

This statement disproves with both Oddbod's and my experiences on real Amiga having non-existing, or, if they do, *hardly audible* bleeps or screeches at the slap-bass part, whereas they are annoyingly loud on WinUAE.

FromWithin · 22 October 2005, 03:32

Bah. The internal sound on my A4000 has gone mad. It's incredibly quiet and only plays the left channel. Needs looking into obviously. And apart from that, I forgot that I've got a Catweasel and can't boot from floppy.

But anyway. I tried the CUST.Quartz from from exotica.fix.no on Delitracker2 on both the real Amiga and and emulated equivalent. Both came out fine (at least, left channel sounded okay on the real one).

I can only imagine that the data on the some of the samples is corrupted in the game version. Maybe something to do with the crack? Is it possible that a different memory configuration would result in slightly different corrupted data, thus producing differing volumes of noise?

OddbOd · 22 October 2005, 06:36

The sample data is identical in all 4 versions (Custom module, ADF, EXE and IPF) so I think that can be discounted. cust.Quartz has a modified replayer which explains why it works properly, it also contains a note in the header Custom Player for Quartz by Wally Beben. De-absoluted, de-selfmodified and optimized by Turbo/INFECT (02-Mar-94) which gives a fairly large clue as to what the problem is.

But, this is not what Andreas is getting at! The point is there is a difference between how it sounds in WinUAE and on hardware, regardless of the end result if WinUAE is accurate then it should reproduce the bug "correctly". It would be interesting to hear how it plays on a stock A500 and if Codetapper's WHDLoad version works properly in WinUAE.

Update: WHDLoad version behaves exactly the same as the floppy and EXE versions on both my A2000 and in WinUAE.

FromWithin · 22 October 2005, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddbOd

But, this is not what Andreas is getting at! The point is there is a difference between how it sounds in WinUAE and on hardware, regardless of the end result if WinUAE is accurate then it should reproduce the bug "correctly".

And my suggestion was that if the samples are getting overwritten while in memory, the corruption may differ on machines with different memory configurations due to allocations in different spaces, so therefore may well sound different (or the same) on UAE and certain real Amigas, or even different between real Amigas.

Galahad/FLT · 22 October 2005, 10:30

Pretty sure Quartz isn't relocatable.

andreas · 31 October 2005, 21:10

I appreciate all your concerns!
Also thanks to Oddbod for the cust.Quartz info!

21 October 2005, 04:03	#1
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	QUARTZ title sound problems (Wally Beben - experts only) Well yes, this is not by pure luck that I put sound magician Wally Beben in parentheses, as when in 1000 games, sound with 999 games was done by others, and one by Wally Beben, this will be the very one that usually doesn't work Dunno whether he is known for utterly torturing the hardware when making his tunes, but I wouldn't be surprised if ... Note that the sound differences most probably cannot be heard from the common listener, hence this is meant mostly for those guys with expertise thru listening to game MODs and the like. Please download the QUARTZ version from the zone, put sound emulation to 100% (always essential for Beben, that is!) and listen CAREFULLY. I can hear bleeps at VERY high frequencies (> 5000 Hz), lots of other noise and bleeps that are not audible on my miggy (I've just transferred that version to real disk!); not in the very first seconds, but later! That is, at great part, very much later even... The most "broken" part is the second of two parts where the slap bass can be heard solo (with only sparse drum accompaniment, i. e. no diatonic instruments; however, do not confuse with first slap bass/drum part, I mean the second one, much later, with the drums/percussion playing a solo N. C. part first, then the slap bass joins in) Please tell me that I'm not fantasizing. Last edited by andreas; 21 October 2005 at 04:36.

22 October 2005, 06:36	#10
OddbOd Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 666	The sample data is identical in all 4 versions (Custom module, ADF, EXE and IPF) so I think that can be discounted. cust.Quartz has a modified replayer which explains why it works properly, it also contains a note in the header Custom Player for Quartz by Wally Beben. De-absoluted, de-selfmodified and optimized by Turbo/INFECT (02-Mar-94) which gives a fairly large clue as to what the problem is. But, this is not what Andreas is getting at! The point is there is a difference between how it sounds in WinUAE and on hardware, regardless of the end result if WinUAE is accurate then it should reproduce the bug "correctly". It would be interesting to hear how it plays on a stock A500 and if Codetapper's WHDLoad version works properly in WinUAE. Update: WHDLoad version behaves exactly the same as the floppy and EXE versions on both my A2000 and in WinUAE. Last edited by OddbOd; 22 October 2005 at 07:52.

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21 October 2005, 08:17	#2
OddbOd Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 666	It's not just you however I can hear it both in WinUAE (in the ADF, EXE and CAPS versions, so it's not a cracking bug) and on my A2000. At first I thought it might have been because my accelerator was turned on as this causes some graphic corruption but even in 68000 mode it still does the same thing. Strangely the problem is worse in WinUAE with longer tones that I cannot hear on my Amiga. The bleeps start at the very first "wah-wah-wah-one" sample at the beginning of the tune with some very short tones and then, just like you said, some longer tones can be heard during the slap-bass part.

21 October 2005, 08:24	#3
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,516	Sound filter and testing on an A1000? A1000's sound filter can't be disabled by software (dimming/turning off the power led) like on other Amiga models.

21 October 2005, 14:03	#5
FromWithin Music lord Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Liverpool, UK Age: 50 Posts: 630	It's probably just a bad bit of data in the sample, or badly looped. I'll try it on my 4000 later when I need a work break.

21 October 2005, 20:16	#6
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Thank you!

22 October 2005, 00:12	#7
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,994	I think its a bug in Quartz. When I did an AGA fixed one file version, some of the samples are clipped too early.

22 October 2005, 01:24	#8
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	This statement disproves with both Oddbod's and my experiences on real Amiga having non-existing, or, if they do, hardly audible bleeps or screeches at the slap-bass part, whereas they are annoyingly loud on WinUAE.

22 October 2005, 03:32	#9
FromWithin Music lord Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Liverpool, UK Age: 50 Posts: 630	Bah. The internal sound on my A4000 has gone mad. It's incredibly quiet and only plays the left channel. Needs looking into obviously. And apart from that, I forgot that I've got a Catweasel and can't boot from floppy. But anyway. I tried the CUST.Quartz from from exotica.fix.no on Delitracker2 on both the real Amiga and and emulated equivalent. Both came out fine (at least, left channel sounded okay on the real one). I can only imagine that the data on the some of the samples is corrupted in the game version. Maybe something to do with the crack? Is it possible that a different memory configuration would result in slightly different corrupted data, thus producing differing volumes of noise?

22 October 2005, 10:30	#12
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,994	Pretty sure Quartz isn't relocatable.

31 October 2005, 21:10	#13
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	I appreciate all your concerns! Also thanks to Oddbod for the cust.Quartz info!

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