Is 'save state' cheating?

[spiff]

Like everything else in life:
It's only cheating if you get caught

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

Yup, but never had one... can u save and load any location with AR on a real Amiga, like Winuae?.

Yep, if you have enough memory you should be able to do quick save/restore as well.

@ Spiff -

[Shoonay]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

, so many bugged games then .

Yeah, don't you just love it?

... on the other hand, there's nothing like:
- playing a brand new WarCraft3 when it's out
- downloading the latest 20MB patch with a 100kb file log of changes
- finding that replays don't work
- downloading the latest 30MB patch
- restarting playing campaigns due to balance changes in the game
- downloading the latest 50MB patch with a few new multiplayer maps
- finding that replays don't work again
- again restarting the campaign... (hey, i wanna learn the new stuff from the beginning!)
- downloading a 120MB patch just for a brand new colourful fonts in chat feature

Sorry for OT

[Ironclaw]

Originally Posted by spiff

Like everything else in life:
It's only cheating if you get caught

Yeah, to those that catches you, but what is it to yourself? Don't you consider yourself a cheater when using a cheat?

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

Yeah, to those that catches you, but what is it to yourself? Don't you consider yourself a cheater when using a cheat?

That's the reason I started this topic.

I don't consider myself cheater for using save state to reply Turrican for example. Tonight I might have time to play last world, but again, MAYBE.

I consider save state cheating only if you are competing with other users in an online turnament or other competition. (like LA cometition for example)

[Shoonay]

Exactly.
Sometimes you can't use it: but the same goes for build-in cheats, auto-fire or any other form of making yourself better then others.
Sometimes you must use it: lack of time or abilities... yeah, if you ever see me finish Turrican on a real Amy, THAT would be the day

[spiff]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

Yeah, to those that catches you, but what is it to yourself? Don't you consider yourself a cheater when using a cheat?

Per definition no “It's only cheating if you get caught”. I’m possible a savestater when using a savestate. Not a cheater.

Since others aren’t involved (“to yourself”) it a ethical problem from an egoistical perspective. It’s good for me, therefore its right. The logic here being that I’m not missing out on the game play experience by using savestates then if I’m not using savestates.

Let’s say, a very cinematic game ie would possible be cheating.

[Shoonay]

Damn, so i was cheating in STAG?

[spiff]

Originally Posted by Shoonay

Damn, so i was cheating in STAG?

aaaggg.. must.. resist..not.. make... fast... joke..

[Ultron]

Dr. Brown is in the room

[Adropac2]

Save states are very handy sometimes but in certain circumstances ie just before it looks likely you will loose one of your lives , it is of course cheating.If the original Doom had had quick saves then all you would need to get through a level would be to save before that part you knew you kept dying at.In games we have to make a choice and it's this choice that gets us killed or not.Save states allow us to rewind time to that very point where the game designers wanted us to only have the one chance.Save states would have killed Elite and it's one of the very reasons why i don't like Frontier quite as much as i would do.

The argument that you don't have to use them is a little nonsense because just knowing they are there is spoils things.There is of course the satisfaction you get knowing you havn't cheated but in some games like an Rpg for example , a quick save is sometimes just too tempting- you regret it afterwards mind.

If i wanted to play through an entire game like Shadow of the Beast then it is likely that i would use save states - i just don't have that much time to get good at a game like this so saves for this use are a god send.I would probably limit the saves to level starts.Games are a little fairer now than they used to be(Not including arcade games as there design is fair and unlike some older home games)and so i think for emulators they are a very handy feature.Modern pc games use quicks saves quite a bit it seems and is one of the reasons why i don't play pc games anymore - pulls you out of a game's world frankly + tension removed because you know saving gets you out of a sticky spot your currently experiencing.Halo has a very good system for a modern game where it puts you back but not by too much - you still feel happy to try getting past where you died last time.

[DamienD]

I agree Adropac2... I was only able to finish Half-Life 2 because I saved every few minutes

Some of those final stages with Striders everywhere were difficult though

[Carlos Ace]

Of course its cheating. A.R. MK III help me to finish some hard games. hmmm...
i´ve still have the save position of Battletoads in a hard stage that i havent finished, and i havent play it since 1998 (????).

[mtb]

For the way i ( mostly ) use them, i don't consider them cheats:

i use them in order to:
avoid long loadings ( to play immediatly a game )
avoid playing for too much time ( i almost never have time for a 30 minutes session )

Sometimes i use them to reply the last part where i loose. Especially in games where you need to know how to face enemies before they appear.

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by DamienD

I agree Adropac2... I was only able to finish Half-Life 2 because I saved every few minutes

Some of those final stages with Striders everywhere were difficult though

I played the cool but inferior Xbox version of Half life2 but funnily enough that's got save states too.I didn't realise until much later on after completing it.Yep those Striders were a pain - the new mini walkers look even more of a challenge.

Money payed in by the way.

[Adropac2]

Mind you not that there's anything wrong with cheating if that's what you want to do , just don't anyone pat themselves on the back for save cheating thinking they have really completed a game properly.There's probably a few that do i reckon.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

I played the cool but inferior Xbox version of Half life2

Me too

Originally Posted by Adropac2

Money payed in by the way.

Cool, sorry I forgot to mention in the thread that some more cash arrived in the Barclays account today. From memory you did say that you want to pay straight into the account and I gave you the detail hey?

[Avanze]

No. Why should it be?

[caffeinekid]

It depends what you are using it for - is it cheating to use save state when I'm making a pc version of an Amiga game and need access to different levels quickly?

I have 30 save states for Super Obliteration at the moment - one for the start of each level so I can do my best to duplicate them correctly, with the right powerups and the right placement and movement for the rocks.

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Me too


Cool, sorry I forgot to mention in the thread that some more cash arrived in the Barclays account today. From memory you did say that you want to pay straight into the account and I gave you the detail hey?

Yeah got the bank details thanks and payed in yesturday late afternoon.£20 from Deal branch kent.Not sure how long it takes.